[Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

[Warin]

On 21/12/19 19:49, Francesco Ansanelli wrote:
> Dear Volker,
>
> I saw that someone went ahead and changed the wiki again:
>
> Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that start and end of a route are at the 
> same location.
>
> I think this new definition matches your idea of roundtrip and it's 
> fine for both definitions.
> My last offer is to abandon the closed_loop tag in favour of:
>
> roundtrip:type=linear|circular
>
> Do you agree?

No.

"Type" means nothing. Perhaps roundtrip:route=*???

As for the values .. you will need to define them!

'My' local bus route starts off with ways that are used both directions 
.. and then separates into a loop where the segments are only used in 
one direction.

I could imaging routes that have several loops  used in one direction 
and then ways that are used in both directions .. arrr there is another  
route that does that ...

So what values will there be to cover complex cases???


> Francesco
>
>
> Il ven 20 dic 2019, 22:45 Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com 
> <mailto:voschix at gmail.com>> ha scritto:
>
>     Please revert the roundtrip wiki change, but let's put any other
>     wiki-changes on halt for a moment.
>     What we need to do is to find out how the roundtrip tag is being
>     used (the wiki is suposed to document the actual use, not what the
>     use should be) and in particular if there is a more-than sporadic
>     use of roundtrip=yes|no for anything else than loop=yes|no.
>     It's difficult to get reliable quantitative results, but:
>     A fast overpass turbo wizard query
>     "type:relation and route=bicycle and roundtrip=yes in
>     Italy|France|England|USA|Bayern"
>     resulted in
>     Italy: 58 lines with at best a handful of them not closed loops
>     France: 358 lines with maybe 10 non-loops
>     England:  25 lines, all loops.
>     USA:  29, about 6 non-loops
>     Bavaria 213, did not find any non-loops
>     For me this is a strong indication that the large majority of all
>     cycle route relations in these countries that have a roundrip=yes
>     are in fact loops and that that this is the de-facto use of the tag.
>     I think this is a strong case against any change.
>
>     Taginfo points in the same direction
>     12665 roundtrip=no
>     21774 roundtrip=yes
>     42 closed_loop=yes
>     no closed_loop=no
>
>     Volker
>
>
>     	
>     	
>
>
>
>     On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 18:17, Francesco Ansanelli
>     <francians at gmail.com <mailto:francians at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         In my opinion the options are:
>
>         - deprecate roundtrip in favour of 2 tags with a generally
>         agreed naming convention (best at this point)
>         - keep roundtrip and closed_loop with the wiki definition I
>         did change (relations must be updated accordingly)
>
>         I read many of you asked a revert, I just want to point out
>         that is not a resolution because tag is currently messed up
>
>         Il ven 20 dic 2019, 15:08 Steve Doerr <doerr.stephen at gmail.com
>         <mailto:doerr.stephen at gmail.com>> ha scritto:
>
>             On 19/12/2019 22:48, Phake Nick wrote:
>>             Merriam Webster and some other resources you have quoted
>>             are dictionary for American English, not the variant of
>>             English used by OSM. Posts by original author of the
>>             topic on the wiki talk page have explained the meaning of
>>             the term in British English.
>
>             The OED definitions read as follows:
>
>                 Originally U.S.
>                  A. n.
>                  1.
>                  a. A journey to a place and back again, along the
>                 same route; (also) a journey to one or more places and
>                 back again which does not cover the same ground twice,
>                 a circular tour or trip.
>
>                  b. Baseball. A home run. Cf. round-tripper n. 2.
>
>                  2. In extended use and figurative, esp. (Mining and
>                 Oil Industry) an act of withdrawing and replacing a
>                 drill pipe.
>
>                  3. Stock Market (originally U.S.). The action or an
>                 instance of buying and selling the same stock,
>                 commodity, etc., often simultaneously. Cf. round turn
>                 n. 4.
>
>                  B. adj. (attributive). Chiefly North American.
>
>                  1. Of or relating to a round trip (in various
>                 senses). Cf. return n. Compounds 1.
>
>                  2. That makes or has made a round trip (literal and
>                 figurative).
>
>                  C. adv. Chiefly North American.
>
>                   As a round trip; by travelling to a place and back
>                 again.
>
>             Note the frequent references to 'U.S.' and 'North
>             American'. It's an American phrase, though now widely
>             adopted in the UK.
>
>             -- 
>             Steve
>             _______________________________________________
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/attachments/20191221/68dcc919/attachment-0001.html>