[Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Dear Volker,

I saw that someone went ahead and changed the wiki again:

Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that start and end of a route are at the same
location.

I think this new definition matches your idea of roundtrip and it's fine
for both definitions.
My last offer is to abandon the closed_loop tag in favour of:

roundtrip:type=linear|circular

Do you agree?
Francesco


Il ven 20 dic 2019, 22:45 Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Please revert the roundtrip wiki change, but let's put any other
> wiki-changes on halt for a moment.
> What we need to do is to find out how the roundtrip tag is being used (the
> wiki is suposed to document the actual use, not what the use should be) and
> in particular if there is a more-than sporadic use of roundtrip=yes|no for
> anything else than loop=yes|no.
> It's difficult to get reliable quantitative results, but:
> A fast overpass turbo wizard query
> "type:relation and route=bicycle and roundtrip=yes in
> Italy|France|England|USA|Bayern"
> resulted in
> Italy: 58 lines with at best a handful of them not closed loops
> France: 358 lines with maybe 10 non-loops
> England:  25 lines, all loops.
> USA:  29, about 6 non-loops
> Bavaria 213, did not find any non-loops
> For me this is a strong indication that the large majority of all cycle
> route relations in these countries that have a roundrip=yes are in fact
> loops and that that this is the de-facto use of the tag.
> I think this is a strong case against any change.
>
> Taginfo points in the same direction
> 12665 roundtrip=no
> 21774 roundtrip=yes
> 42 closed_loop=yes
> no closed_loop=no
>
> Volker
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 18:17, Francesco Ansanelli <francians at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In my opinion the options are:
>>
>> - deprecate roundtrip in favour of 2 tags with a generally agreed naming
>> convention (best at this point)
>> - keep roundtrip and closed_loop with the wiki definition I did change
>> (relations must be updated accordingly)
>>
>> I read many of you asked a revert, I just want to point out that is not a
>> resolution because tag is currently messed up
>>
>> Il ven 20 dic 2019, 15:08 Steve Doerr <doerr.stephen at gmail.com> ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>> On 19/12/2019 22:48, Phake Nick wrote:
>>>
>>> Merriam Webster and some other resources you have quoted are dictionary
>>> for American English, not the variant of English used by OSM. Posts by
>>> original author of the topic on the wiki talk page have explained the
>>> meaning of the term in British English.
>>>
>>>
>>> The OED definitions read as follows:
>>>
>>> Originally U.S.
>>>  A. n.
>>>  1.
>>>  a. A journey to a place and back again, along the same route; (also) a
>>> journey to one or more places and back again which does not cover the same
>>> ground twice, a circular tour or trip.
>>>
>>>  b. Baseball. A home run. Cf. round-tripper n. 2.
>>>
>>>  2. In extended use and figurative, esp. (Mining and Oil Industry) an
>>> act of withdrawing and replacing a drill pipe.
>>>
>>>  3. Stock Market (originally U.S.). The action or an instance of buying
>>> and selling the same stock, commodity, etc., often simultaneously. Cf.
>>> round turn n. 4.
>>>
>>>  B. adj. (attributive). Chiefly North American.
>>>
>>>  1. Of or relating to a round trip (in various senses). Cf. return n.
>>> Compounds 1.
>>>
>>>  2. That makes or has made a round trip (literal and figurative).
>>>
>>>  C. adv. Chiefly North American.
>>>
>>>   As a round trip; by travelling to a place and back again.
>>>
>>> Note the frequent references to 'U.S.' and 'North American'. It's an
>>> American phrase, though now widely adopted in the UK.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>
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