[Tagging] [Talk-us] Trunk VS primary,

Jarek Piórkowski jarek at piorkowski.ca
Sat Dec 21 12:36:55 UTC 2019


On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 22:30, Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org> wrote:
>> > What I'm saying is highway=bundesstraße could be acceptable, but straße=bundestraße wouldn't be.  Mostly so way type objects with highway=*  are still potentially routable.
>>
>> How do you propose these "potential routable" fallback routers to
>> handle highway=Bürgersteig (a sidewalk) vs highway=Fahrradstraße (a
>> local street where bicycles have priority)?
>
> Same way I already consider highway=motorway:  Tag for access.  Assumptions are OKish, but at least in north america, motorway and trunk (aka freeways and expressways) are ambiguous for non-motorized modes.  Most states allow nonmotorized modes on motorways, but 15 don't, and about 30 allow it when not otherwise posted, so foot=no, bicycle=no is *NOT* a safe assumption for freeways.  Especailly the farther west you go; for example, in British Columbia, Washington and Oregon (where I grew up), a motorway is probably safer for cyclists than your average city street with bicycle lanes (no oncoming traffic, parking on the pavement is not permitted at all, roughly 4.5m wide hard shoulders, 80-110km/h speed limits but that's 3m from anybody walking or cycling, versus no sidewalks, 1.5-2m wide bicycle lanes and 60-90 km/h surface street speed limits, with both the speed limits and bicycle lanes being next to never respected in the northwest).

Tagging exceptions is fine, but tagging every highway=footway aka
highway=chodnik with vehicle=no is going to be a bit silly I would
think.

You might know, but just to mention: the British Columbia comment is
not accurate in most of Lower Mainland (that one bit of Upper Levels
Highway notwithstanding). So if we are adding access tags to
distinguish urban vs rural realities, what's wrong with
highway=motorway as the base tag?

>> How will a router know
>> which highways can be used by trucks, buses, pedestrians, other than
>> with a giant lookup table?
>
> highway=* is a good start, which is why I'm in favor of "lower is better" with the exiting system.

I'm sorry, I'm missing some context to understand this (or was this
meant to be "existing"?). To be more explicit, how would a router know
not to send trucks on highway=Fahrradstraße?

>> And if you do have a giant lookup table,
>> wouldn't be easier to have it in editors rather than in every single
>> data consumer?
>
> Not really.  UK concepts are entirely foreign to all but roadgeeks in North America, and, judging by AARoads and NE2's history, not even then.

Sorry, I meant "editors" as in software, not as in humans. You specify
the road as "Oregon freeway", and JOSM/rapiD/whatever editor add tags
highway=motorway + bicycle=yes.

I'm totally onboard with additional tags to refine for local
realities. But keep the one tag already understood by all data
consumers.

Thanks,
--Jarek



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