[Tagging] transaction parameters for ATMs

Mon Feb 25 10:44:35 UTC 2019

AFAIK, the limit in Belgium depends on the card. You can within
certain limits set by the issuer, change your limit. Furthermore,
there is a daily and weekly limit as well (see e.g.
https://www.kbc.be/particulieren/nl/product/betalen/betaalkaarten/bankkaarten/bankkaart.html
in Dutch).
Any tagging proposal should make it very clear that it is the limit of
the ATM. A tag that should not be used in Belgium.

Regarding fees, it depends on your account, the ATM you use, the brand
of the bank and the number of times you have used ATM's in a certain
period.

Banks and shops prefer that you pay with your debit or credit card in
the shop I think, that's why they make it more expensive to withdraw
money from an ATM.
More and more shops also offer payment via Smart Phones.

m.

On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 1:27 PM <0174 <V0174 at v0174.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Frederik Ramm wrote:
> I'd say we stick to stuff that is explicitly signposted on the machine -
> if the machine says what the limit is or what the network is or what
> currencies it has, then map that, but don't map data gathered by
> interacting with the machine.
>
> one use case:
>
> I was recently in Nepal and the ATMs there have very low withdrawal limit (c. 10,000 to 25,000 NPR, that is about 200 €) and always a fee. Withdrawing larger sums of money i.e. for several weeks of trekking can get quite expensive if one chooses an ATM with low limit.
> There are many ATMs in cities and towns, but since the limit is not written on the ATM, the only was to find the good ones is to use them (and to risk losing your card).
>
> That's one reason why I would suggest to not dismiss tagging with info taken from interacting with the ATM. I suppose sometimes the max. amount can differ based on the card issuer, but I believe we should reflect such cases in the tagging scheme. Sometimes there is no other way and this information could help a lot.
>
> <0174
>
>
> čt 14. 2. 2019 v 12:52 odesílatel Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> napsal:
>>
>> Here in Indonesia the ATMs are universally limited to dispensing no more than 25 bills, and they only offer one type. So you can get 2,500,000 in one withdrawal if they dispense 100,000 Rupiah bills, or 1250000 if they dispense 50k bills.
>>
>> The size of bill dispensed is often shown on a sticker (at least for newer ATMs)
>>
>> (100,000 rupiah converts to about $7 US)
>> On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 5:08 PM seirra blake <sophietheopossum at yandex.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> some providers already make it publicly available knowledge. for example in the UK link ATM has an app, and you can use it to find nearby ATMs. most of the things it tells you are pretty standard, but some things that may need new tags are pin management services, audio assistance and £5 notes (because otherwise you're limited to denominations of 10). I was thinking with these tags included, link ATM may feel encouraged to import their data and maintain it on OSM allowing them to save costs on their end and have a more detailed map. when I tried proposing minimum denominations before on here though it got shot down very fast.
>>>
>>> On 2/14/19 7:17 AM, Colin Smale wrote:
>>>
>>> Tagging min and max withdrawals on the ATM is asking for confusion. The normal limits are set by the card issuer, and I can see many people mistakenly putting their personal card limits into these tags on the ATM.
>>>
>>> More relevant here would be the denomination mix. ATMs have a fixed number of canisters (maybe 2/3/4), each of which can hold a single type of note. Which denominations are loaded depends on historical usage patterns. Stocking low denomination notes might be good for user convenience, but bad for the possibility of running out of money in a busy location. Knowing the normal mix for a particular ATM, in particular the smallest denomination, is useful for knowing which amounts can be dispensed, and which not.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So instead of min_withdrawal on the ATM, I would suggest min_denomination.
>>>
>>> In the case of multi-currency ATMs there will need to be a currency-specific variant, like min_denomination:EUR=20
>>>
>>> Problem is, it will probably require data from multiple transactions from small to large to work out the mix and we need to keep mappers merging the data from their experience, and not overwriting the valid data from a previous ATM user, while recognising that the denomination mix can change, even according to the days of the week (weekends might be different to weekdays in city centres).
>>>
>>> On 2019-02-14 07:29, OSMDoudou wrote:
>>>
>>> The minimum can also differ.
>>>
>>> Some banks allow their young customers to withdraw small amounts, like 5 EUR, whereas adults and even young customers with cards from other banks will not be allowed to withdraw less than 20 EUR.
>>>
>>> So, it may create confusion between mappers because what you see as options on the ATM may depend on your card and your affiliation with the bank.
>>>
>>> This impairs verifiability on the ground of the information.
>>> On 2/14/19, 03:45 Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The maximum may also be limited by the card provider. Need some careful words on the proposal to say it is the limit of the ATM provider.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 14/02/19 13:31, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Withdrawals are not the only type of ATM transaction.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So use
>>>> withdraw_min=*
>>>> withdraw_max=*
>>>>
>>>> ???
>>>>
>>>> The currency is set by some other tag that I forget now. That needs to be mentioned in the proposal.
>>>> As a user .. I have no idea what the limits are. I suspect I may know the lower limit, but not the upper.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps max_withdrawal would be clearer?
>>>> On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 10:57 AM Nathan Wyand <propaganda at nathanwyand.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello mappers,
>>>>>
>>>>> I frequently use OSM to find ATM's near me, but many of these machines place limits on how much can be withdrawn in 1 transaction. This can make it inconvenient and expensive to withdraw money, requiring several transactions. Another issue is that many machines only carry $20 notes, which forces people to withdraw more or less than they actually desire. I am considering two tags for use alongside 'amenity=atm':
>>>>>
>>>>> min_transaction (the minimum amount of cash that can be withdrawn in one transaction...typically the smallest denomination of notes in the machine)
>>>>> max _transaction (the maximum amount of cash that can be withdrawn in one transaction)
>>>>>
>>>>> This is my first time proposing a tag, and I would love to hear your input and and advice. Thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>> -Nathan
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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