[Tagging] Trailhead tagging

Peter Elderson pelderson at gmail.com
Thu Jan 3 00:05:00 UTC 2019


Small addition about this remark:

"What I don't understand is why the highway tag is used to carry the
information. The way you have mapped the trailheads Peter I would leave
them under some subkey of information, e.g. tourism=information +
information=board + board_type=trailhead."

Some people say: it's just the start of the route. Some say: it's basically
just a parking. Some say: it's basically just a sign, a map or a board.

Well, if it's just one of those then you don't need to tag them as
suchthese places combine those things in a marked, designated way, and are
operated and published for the purpose, that makes them worth mapping.

It's the fact that

Op do 3 jan. 2019 om 00:57 schreef Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com>:

> Thanks for the comments. Please understand that the mentioned proposal is
> not my proposal.
>
> We just kept the idea of a trailhead node marking a place specifically and
> visibly designated to start one or more hiking routes, bicycle routes,
> canoe routes, horseriding routes.  Just a crossing or the starting arrow
> of a single route has no need for this kind of tagging. Just a map or a
> board, not a trailhead. Just a parking, not a trailhead.
>
> In the US many trailheads have been mapped because they are places where
> you are allowed to access a single trail. The may not even have a name
> other than "Start of <trail name>" and a location name, but the are listed
> and offered as designated trailheads.
>
> These simple trailheads as they have been tagged consist of a node tagged
> highway=trailhead and usually the name, and someties additional tags. The
> node may be standalone or may be the first node of the trail or of a
> branch. The node if standalone may coincide with a board or map or
> guidepost.
>
> So my suggestion is exactly that: use a node marked as trailhead,
> preferably with a name it can be extracted, listed and rendered as being a
> designated trailhead.
>
> In Nederland we use some further tagging to indicate the modalities and
> the facilities. The trailheads are specifically designated and designed for
> transit to routes of all kinds: bicycle en walking routes, roundtrips and
> networks are standard, free parking space must be available, a special
> landmark marks them, and there are always some benches; a restaurant or
> cafe nearby.
>
> To see the trails starting at one of these places you best look at
> Nederland on waymarkedtrails. They all have multiple hiking/foot routes and
> walking routes to hop on, and most support other modalities.
> Pity that the trailheads themselves are not yet rendered and clickable on
> waymarkedtrails, but we are working on that.
>
> So tagging becomes more complicated, but the basic function is still the
> same: search, list and render places specifically designed to get out of
> the car and start walking, cycling etcetera.
> The node in this use case will always be standalone because of the
> multimodality and many routes that it serves.
>
> About the use of referencing tags. I agree this is not yet the best
> result. Wikipedia links to the dutch page for TOP's (as they are called
> here), I think that is correct. url links to a site which lists all the
> official dutch trailheads. website links to the recreational publishing
> sites of different official operators. Each province has its own operator
> (and trailhead style).  Some of those have a web page for each trailhead,
> others have a simple list, others an interactive map or search function...
> and they reorganise quite often. Permalinks? What? Never heard of...) so we
> don't link deep but refer to a list/search/map/filter page.
>
> I'm sure the coming years will show what keeps and what not.
>
>
> Op wo 2 jan. 2019 om 23:43 schreef Tobias Wrede <list at tobias-wrede.de>:
>
>> Am 02.01.2019 um 19:42 Kevin Kenny wrote:
>> >
>> > At the risk of repeating myself:
>> >
>> > I think I'd need more concrete examples before I'd support such a
>> > proposal.
>>
>> Yes, I second this request.
>>
>> > If 'trailhead' degenerates into 'any intersection of a trail and a
>> > highway' (which is what it is in that National Park Service database)
>> > then it's kind of redundant.
>>
>> My examples below show they are rather a placeholder for 'any
>> intersection of a trail and a highway' .
>>
>> > It appears to me that the Europeans have
>> > a more specific idea of what a 'trailhead' is - but I don't quite
>> > understand that idea, and I suspect that's because there are no
>> > trailheads of that sort near me, despite the fact that I'm within an
>> > hour's drive of hundreds of hiking trails, including a handful of 'big
>> > name' long-distance ones.
>> Please don't generalize. From a German perspective I share your
>> uneasiness (see my earlier remarks). Funnily, I always had the
>> impression that in the US you have the more specific idea of what a
>> trailhead is. :-)
>>
>>
>> I looked at some of the trailheads in the Netherlands
>> (http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/EV4):
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6141092027
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6141092007
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6141092068
>>
>> All were tourism=information + information=board but none were in any
>> way connected to a trail let alone to any other highway=* feature. Often
>> there wasn't even a tagged route/trail nearby. As such I understand the
>> hw=trailhead is important to find such trail on the map in the first
>> place if the trail itself is not or cannot be mapped.
>>
>> What I don't understand is why the highway tag is used to carry the
>> information. The way you have mapped the trailheads Peter I would leave
>> them under some subkey of information, e.g. tourism=information +
>> information=board + board_type=trailhead.
>>
>> In the proposal the hw=trailhead is supposed to "be mapped as a node or
>> a node that is part of a trail segment (i.e.,highway=path) and should be
>> tagged primarily as highway=trailhead".
>> (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/trailhead#Tagging)
>>
>> As a side note: Looking at the examples I found that you added keys like
>> wikipedia=nl:Toeristisch Overstappunt
>> url=https://gpsfietsroutesnederland.nl/toeristische-overstappunten/
>> website=https://www.natuurpoorten.nl/
>> <https://gpsfietsroutesnederland.nl/toeristische-overstappunten/website=https://www.natuurpoorten.nl/>
>>
>> These are all generic references that could be added to the OSM wiki
>> page. On the individual trailheads I would expect a website of the
>> specific trail.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tobias
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Vr gr Peter Elderson
>


-- 
Vr gr Peter Elderson
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