[Tagging] Trailhead tagging

Fri Jan 4 17:17:41 UTC 2019

Sorry where I said Japan I was wrong, it's actually Taiwan and Philippines.

Op vr 4 jan. 2019 om 13:08 schreef Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com>:

>
>
> Op do 3 jan. 2019 om 13:22 schreef Marc Gemis <marc.gemis at gmail.com>:
>
>> I wonder why it is under "highway", it seems more related to "tourism"
>> / "information".
>
>
> Current usage: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/highway=trailhead
>
> Overpass shows most usage is in the US, Canada and Japan, now also
> Nederland, and some in Italy.
>
> highway can be applied to nodes and ways, and it compares nicely to
> highway=bus_stop. A trailhead is then seen as a "trail stop" for trail
> "passengers".  I think that's why it was chosen in the trailhead proposal.
> I saw no compelling reason to change that, even though I can see your
> argument to use tourism=.
>
> Advantage of highway= is that you can still add the tourism= key for an
> information board if it coincides with the trailhead.
>
> Do you see an actual problem with this usage?
>
>
>> Another problem I see is that there is no other definition for
>
> trailheads in The Netherlands than "location being picked by the
>> tourist agency as trailhead" or better "location being designated by
>> the tourist agency as TOP"
>> It seems to me that any other definition means that one has to map
>> many more places in The Netherlands as trailhead or that some of the
>> "picked by tourist agency" are not a trailhead.
>>
>
> Lots of places give access to trails, of course. But if they are not
> visibly designated/designed and operated (not just picked!), I would not
> map those places as trailheads. No one has to do that. On the other hand,
> in other countries useers may see fit to map those kind of locations as
> trailheads, because they want to search/list them and see them on a map.
>
> Given that the Dutch community has a very specific definition of
>> trailhead, I wonder whether this can  be solved by a dedicated tag
>> (tourism=top) or subtag (tourism=information;information=top) ? The
>> benefit would be to avoid confusion with a more general definition of
>> trailheads (whatever that might be).
>>
>
> I fear that this would cause more confusion than it solves! I would like
> not to go principle and exact definition about this, and just take the
> practical approach: If a place fits the very general description I
> suggested, then if a mapper sees fit, (s)he may use the trailhead tag. I'm
> sure the local/regional community will moderate if necessary, to ensure the
> tagging fits their situation.
>
>
>>
>> m.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:21 AM Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Please note that the description of official TOPs in Nederland is not
>> intended as a limitative requirement for trailheads around the globe.
>> >
>> > If we would mark every access point to a route as a trailhead,
>> Nederland would be covered with trailheads, and nobody would have any use
>> for the information. So we limit it to these specially designed "official"
>> transit places. These can be usefully listed, searched, and presented based
>> on the OSM data. Other countries may differ in what's useful, thats fine.
>> >  And that's why the idea is just to mark a node as highway=trailhead
>> and (usually) a name.
>> >
>> > About the name: it's common to list places with names. The operator
>> must have some kind of name or reference. Even when there is no special
>> name on a sign, you still need to describe the thing, maybe using the name
>> of the trail and which end (north, or a town name, road name, or..).  Or
>> name of the park and numbered acces points, something.
>> > If there really is nothing of the sort, and the place is still deemed
>> as useful to map, fine. Could still be useful to display them on a POI map
>> or hiking map, but search by name is then impossible.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Op do 3 jan. 2019 om 09:23 schreef Mark Wagner <mark+osm at carnildo.com>:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 20:57:04 +0100
>> >> Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Copying from an earlier response: Designated starting point for
>> >> > multiple routes into a nature area.  There is a designed marking pole
>> >> > or stele, information boards, seats or benches, free parking space
>> >> > nearby. This one is in a small village:
>> >> >
>> https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.4336993,6.834158,3a,75y,191.07h,84.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sby0P5NTeyqR3fyrgDNqCOA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=nl
>> >> >
>> >> > Here is another one, with emphasis on Parking. On the left behind the
>> >> > parking is the actual access point to the trails.
>> >> >
>> https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.6284198,5.0889629,3a,76.4y,32.53h,96.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy3HdYWJ2zZ1rw1ozqJyrXw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=nl
>> >> >
>> >> > The operators are governmental bodies. They publish the lists on
>> >> > recreation websites. Each province has its own list. VVV of course
>> >> > lists/presents them as well.
>> >> >
>> >> > These points are designed for trail access.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> There's a definite disconnect in definitions here.
>> >>
>> >> Looking at "Nationaal Park De Loonse en Drunense Duinen", there are
>> >> nearly a dozen places that that I would probably call trailheads:
>> >>
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.63153/5.06300
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.65683/5.07140
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.65623/5.08233
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.66740/5.08273
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.67192/5.07931
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.66658/5.14424
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.65640/5.15269
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.63970/5.14803
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.63535/5.11149
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.63125/5.09456
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.62901/5.08933
>> >>
>> >> only two of which appear to be designated as such.  I also found
>> >> about as many locations where I'd expect to find a trailhead, informal
>> >> or otherwise.
>> >>
>> >> Compare to the main section of Riverside State Park, a park in the
>> >> western United States of comparable size and urban-ness, with nine
>> named
>> >> trailheads and about a dozen unnamed ones:
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/47.7429/-117.5226
>> >>
>> >> None of them meets the Netherlands definition of a trailhead.   Sontag
>> >> Park trailhead probably comes the closest, lacking only a marking
>> >> pole/stele.  The rest are paid parking, and most of them lack benches
>> >> and information boards as well as markers.
>> >>
>> >> (Incidentally, if you insist on "starting point" rather than "access
>> >> point", only two of them are trailheads: Nine Mile, the starting point
>> >> for the Spokane Centennial Trail, and the equestrian-area trailhead,
>> >> starting point for 25-Mile Trail.)
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Mark
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Vr gr Peter Elderson
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>
>
> --
> Vr gr Peter Elderson
>

-- 
Vr gr Peter Elderson
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