[Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

Markus selfishseahorse at gmail.com
Tue Nov 12 17:04:01 UTC 2019

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 at 14:15, Paul Allen <pla16021 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 at 00:23, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com> wrote:
>> from the description, light meals aren’t a hard requirement, or it could be seen as satisfied by selling cakes (or ice cream cups in the case of cuisine =ice_cream):
> I suspect that, over the years, people have forced things into cafe because it came closest
> to what they wanted without having to create a new value and then somebody later documented
> it.  Or people bring different cultural assumptions to the term "cafe."
> Question.  You've had a busy day.  No time to eat breakfast or lunch.  You're hungry.  You're
> in a strange town.  You're looking for somewhere to eat.  You look at the map for cafes.
> Would you be happy if you went to one and it sold only ice cream or only cake?

I wouldn't look for a café if i were hungry. Instead i would look for
a restaurant, pub or fast food booth.

In mainland Europe i expect from a café that i can drink a coffee
there and maybe have a sweet snack. While some also serve salty snacks
(like panini) or alcoholic drinks (like apéritifs), i wouldn't expect
that every café serves this.

> Questions.  We already have tags that can distinguish between a shop selling ice cream
> to take out and a place with tables and seats where you buy ice cream to eat inside
> (possibly with a takeaway option).  What purpose does it serve to collapse these into
> a single tag?  What purpose does it serve to replace one of them with a cafe?  Are you
> willing to fix up all the existing usage?  Or is it easier all around to fix up the documentation
> and live with the fact that some existing places may be mismapped?

It is questionable that these two tags are really used the way you define them.

What we know is that when amenity=ice_cream was proposed in 2009, both
tags were used about 50 times each [1], but were undocumented, and
that the approved proposal defined amenity=ice_cream as "a shop which
sells ice creams; an ice-cream parlour" and intended it to be used
"for all places that sell (only or mainly) ice cream ready to eat".
This also includes ice cream parlours/booths without tables and seats.
It, however, excludes shops that only or mainly sell ice cream in
packaging to be taken home, but it is unclear whether such shops even

[1]: https://taghistory.raifer.tech
[2]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Ice_cream

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