[Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

John Willis johnw at mac.com
Fri Oct 11 10:18:27 UTC 2019


Am I misunderstanding something fundamental?  Mapping cycle route relations Sounds a lot like mapping bus routes: mapping the designated routes of existing public/private routes seems to be useful - mapping where you like to drive your RV around With a bus route relation and inter-mixing that into official bus route relations sounds like a disaster. 

I was under the impression cycle route relations (especially with a network=* designation) were for mapping designated cycleway routes - not mapping wherever bicycle=yes is implicit or implied, or whatever route I happen to enjoy riding on weekends.

Of course The the relation can include any way - it might include cycle Lanes in large roads or segments of roads used to link cycling roads together - but just any random road your cycling club likes to ride on the weekend? A route that is 100% trunk road from end-to-end with 0% cycling lanes or paths and no official designation as a route for cyclists? Is that part of a "cycling route network?" Is my favorite Canoeing path around a lake ferry route relation? 

It reeks of polluting the actual designated cycling routes (which are not even half-finished in my area, relation-wise) with relations of random roads which are just regular roads, with no designation for cyclists. It's like if I designated my daily commute a "cycle route relation, network=local" just so I can get a bright blue line in OpenCycleMap, rather than creating/downloading a route in my cycling app on my phone for my own private use - mapping for the renderer IMO. 

Is there something Im not understanding? Can anyone make a route relation for any Way regardless if it is actually a designated oute by a city, signed, or publically documented?

Javbw

> On Oct 11, 2019, at 5:58 PM, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 11/10/19 18:04, John Willis via Tagging wrote:
>> Questions about using cycle relations properly:
>> 
>> I am mapping and repairing cycle roads in the Kanto/Tokyo area. There are a lot of designated cycling roads that follow a long rivers and other water features out into the countryside, making up a regional system, and a lot of smaller local cycling roads (also along small rivers) that connect neighborhoods and towns together.
>> example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3218181
>> 
>> I’m working to get all the individual ways of the cycle roads into relations and to properly classify these (local/regional, etc).
>> 
>> But on the cycling layer of OSM, I find regular roads labeled as cycle routes: mountain roads where professional cyclists like to exercise labeled as a “cycling route”, which seems like “mapping for the renderer”.
>> 
>> example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8066243
>> 
>> - They don’t seem to be cycling roads - all the relation members are trunk roads or similar - no cycleways whatsoever.
> 
> There is no requirement for a cycle route to use cycleways, even in part.
>> 
>> -they are dangerous routes with no side-paths, sidewalks, or dedicated cycle lanes - just regular roads.
>> 
>> - they are exercise loops or hill climbs for pro cyclistsand serve no purpose for travelers or commuters.
> 
> Never the less they could be seen as cycle routes - frequently used by cyclists?
> 
>> 
>> - they are not, AFAIK, part of an official “cycling network”. The Super-relation someone has added all cycle routes to ( 関東地方サイクリングロード・ネットワーク ). https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8051094 also seems to be made-up and not official either - the name only returns one result (the OSM data page) when searched.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To me, these non-cycle routes are just garbage relations meant to have the route show up on the cycling view of OSM for people doing workouts.
> 
> I have had a commuting cyclist map into OSM cycling lanes .. that are not there, shared paths that are not shared.. I would much rather that were mapped as routes showing the actual infrastructure that is there.
> 
>> 
>> I want to delete these fake “mountain workout” relations that should be mapped in strava or a similar workout app.
> 
> If the route shows that regular roads are used .. possibly use the description key to state the nature of the route?
> 
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