[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Pumps (wells and many other things)

Sun Apr 12 23:10:27 UTC 2020

Hi all

RFC on pumping proposal is went really well, with significant progresses
made these past weeks thanks to useful comments received (see Talk).
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal

Tagging has been adapted to take care of several concerns regarding
windpumps, wells and semantic complexity relative to benefits it brings.
It is still proposed to discourage pump=powered/manual as they're at least
redundant with proposed classification of pumps/drivers technologies.
Important distinction between manual and powered pumps is still possible
with the help of motion_driver key.

I'm now looking for more examples with increased diversity of situations.
Due to covid lockdown I'm not able to get pictures of pumps in place. It
would be a pleasure to give a try to proposed tagging if someone has
existing pictures to challenge it.
Wikimedia commons will also be a privileged source of pictures as well.

Thank in advance for any additional input, all the best

François

Le jeu. 19 mars 2020 à 22:51, François Lacombe <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com>
a écrit :

> Hi Joseph and thank you for such a quick and complete comment session
>
> That 7 points allowed to change the proposal a bit and include
> man_made=windmill, watermill instead of actuator.
> Answers are available in Talk :
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal
> I hope lacks of clarity are now fixed.
> In case an answers solve a problem, don't hesitate to use {{Resolved|
> comment    }} template to close it.
>
> Again, anyone would be welcome to propose situations involving pumps to
> complete example sections.
>
> All the best
>
> François
>
> Le jeu. 19 mars 2020 à 03:27, Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
> a écrit :
>
>> I oppose deprecating pump=powered, pump=manual, and pump=no. This is a
>> simple, clear system for use with water wells, and it is widely
>> supported.
>>
>> 1) Clarify use with man_made=water_well
>>
>> Currently 88% of uses of pump=* are with man_made=water_well (the rest
>> are with amenity=drinking_water) and with the 3 values: pump=powered,
>> pump=manual, pump=no. This is a simple and intuitive system for
>> mapping wells in developing countries and rural areas.
>>
>> Please clarify if you are asking mappers to add a separate
>> man_made=pump feature or if that should only be used when there is no
>> man_made=water_well feature.
>>
>> Why should we drop the use of pump=powered, pump=manual, pump=no?
>> Distinguishing pump=powered, pump=manual is easy: you can hear the
>> sound of an electric or diesel motor, and a manual pump has an obvious
>> handle or similar. And pump=no is a well with a bucket or similar.
>>
>> 2) How can mappers figure out the technology of the pump?
>> How are mappers expected to find out the pump technology mechanism?
>> Most pumps are located deep inside the well, or hidden in a service
>> building or structure next to the well. And why would this information
>> be worth mapping?
>>
>> 3) Key:actuator
>> The proposal mentions: actuator=windmill, actuator=watermill, and
>> actuator=beam_engine. What do these have to do with pumps?
>>
>> The current use of the key actuator is quite rare, but the documented
>> values are: actuator=manual, actuator=electric_motor,
>> actuator=pneumatic_cylinder, actuator=hydraulic_cylinder - these don't
>> seem to have anything to do with windmills and watermills?
>>
>> What about the exiting tags man_made=windpump, man_made=windmill,
>> man_made=watermill? Are you proposing to deprecate these common tags?
>>
>> (also in the examples "actuator=manual" is mentioned, but it isn't in the
>> list)
>>
>> -- Joseph Eisenberg
>>
>> On 3/19/20, Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > François,
>> >
>> > Could you please simplify the "==Proposal==" section and make it 100%
>> > clear:
>> >
>> > 1) What new Keys and Tags (Key=Value) are being approved by the proposal
>> > 2) What old Keys and Tags are being deprecated
>> > 3) Move the Proposal section to the top, before Rationale, so people
>> > will be clear on what the proposal is going to do if it is approved.
>> >
>> > This is the current "==Proposal==" section. It's not clear what new
>> > tags are being proposed and what old tags are being deprecated.
>> >
>> >
>> > "It is proposed to complete OSM tagging for pumps used in any domain
>> > with the following tags :
>> >
>> > man_made=pump
>> > pump:output=*
>> > pump=* is currenlty established to state if a water well runs with a
>> > powered or manual pump (actually how the pump is driven if it exists).
>> > We also need a terminology to define the pump technology as many sorts
>> > exist in industry. It's then proposed to refurbish this tag with
>> > values related to pumps mechnanisms.
>> >
>> > Devices used to drive pumps (and get water in case of water wells)
>> > would be better described with existing actuator=* tag instead of
>> > pump. handle=* is also suitable for manual pumps or emergency usage
>> > with manual action when power isn't available.
>> > This option allows to avoid pump:type=* as well."
>> >
>> > -- Joseph Eisenberg
>> >
>> > On 3/19/20, François Lacombe <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> Following several discussions last month, including this one:
>> >>
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2020-February/051385.html
>> >>
>> >> Here is a proposal regarding pumps, obvious devices we all more or less
>> >> know in industries or at home.
>> >> This knowledge is useful for water management, water accessibility,
>> >> industry moderation, emergency response...
>> >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal
>> >>
>> >> Classification is based upon Wikipedia community extensive work about
>> 15
>> >> different pumping mechanisms. Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure some
>> >> technologies are still missing in the proposal.
>> >>
>> >> It's currently the most ambitious version, including pump=* conversion
>> >> for
>> >> machine mechanisms and moving driver description to existing actuator=*
>> >> Despite a consequent re-tagging effort (on water wells particularly),
>> >> here
>> >> are some pros arguments :
>> >> - Use more appropriate terminology and wider possibilities for drivers
>> >> with
>> >> actuator=*
>> >> - Avoid pump:type (:type doesn't bring any information)
>> >> - With 30k occurrences of pump=* and +100k for water wells, there is
>> >> still
>> >> more wells to qualify than already qualified with pump availability.
>> >>
>> >> Examples are for now incomplete. It would be great to have at least one
>> >> use
>> >> case of each value. Feel free to contribute if you have appropriate
>> >> pictures.
>> >>
>> >> Thank in advance for any comment, all the best
>> >>
>> >> François
>> >>
>> >
>>
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>>
>
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