[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Pumps (wells and many other things)

Mon Apr 13 01:31:10 UTC 2020

A search for the phrase "motion driver' finds links to some software.

A search for "motion driver" + "pump" finds women's high-heel shoes.

Perhaps "motion driver' is not the correct term?

A search for "pump driver" finds things about pumps, at least.

Maybe "pump_driver=*" is a better key?

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On 4/13/20, François Lacombe <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> RFC on pumping proposal is went really well, with significant progresses
> made these past weeks thanks to useful comments received (see Talk).
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal
>
> Tagging has been adapted to take care of several concerns regarding
> windpumps, wells and semantic complexity relative to benefits it brings.
> It is still proposed to discourage pump=powered/manual as they're at least
> redundant with proposed classification of pumps/drivers technologies.
> Important distinction between manual and powered pumps is still possible
> with the help of motion_driver key.
>
> I'm now looking for more examples with increased diversity of situations.
> Due to covid lockdown I'm not able to get pictures of pumps in place. It
> would be a pleasure to give a try to proposed tagging if someone has
> existing pictures to challenge it.
> Wikimedia commons will also be a privileged source of pictures as well.
>
> Thank in advance for any additional input, all the best
>
> François
>
> Le jeu. 19 mars 2020 à 22:51, François Lacombe <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com>
> a écrit :
>
>> Hi Joseph and thank you for such a quick and complete comment session
>>
>> That 7 points allowed to change the proposal a bit and include
>> man_made=windmill, watermill instead of actuator.
>> Answers are available in Talk :
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal
>> I hope lacks of clarity are now fixed.
>> In case an answers solve a problem, don't hesitate to use {{Resolved|
>> comment    }} template to close it.
>>
>> Again, anyone would be welcome to propose situations involving pumps to
>> complete example sections.
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> François
>>
>> Le jeu. 19 mars 2020 à 03:27, Joseph Eisenberg
>> <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
>> a écrit :
>>
>>> I oppose deprecating pump=powered, pump=manual, and pump=no. This is a
>>> simple, clear system for use with water wells, and it is widely
>>> supported.
>>>
>>> 1) Clarify use with man_made=water_well
>>>
>>> Currently 88% of uses of pump=* are with man_made=water_well (the rest
>>> are with amenity=drinking_water) and with the 3 values: pump=powered,
>>> pump=manual, pump=no. This is a simple and intuitive system for
>>> mapping wells in developing countries and rural areas.
>>>
>>> Please clarify if you are asking mappers to add a separate
>>> man_made=pump feature or if that should only be used when there is no
>>> man_made=water_well feature.
>>>
>>> Why should we drop the use of pump=powered, pump=manual, pump=no?
>>> Distinguishing pump=powered, pump=manual is easy: you can hear the
>>> sound of an electric or diesel motor, and a manual pump has an obvious
>>> handle or similar. And pump=no is a well with a bucket or similar.
>>>
>>> 2) How can mappers figure out the technology of the pump?
>>> How are mappers expected to find out the pump technology mechanism?
>>> Most pumps are located deep inside the well, or hidden in a service
>>> building or structure next to the well. And why would this information
>>> be worth mapping?
>>>
>>> 3) Key:actuator
>>> The proposal mentions: actuator=windmill, actuator=watermill, and
>>> actuator=beam_engine. What do these have to do with pumps?
>>>
>>> The current use of the key actuator is quite rare, but the documented
>>> values are: actuator=manual, actuator=electric_motor,
>>> actuator=pneumatic_cylinder, actuator=hydraulic_cylinder - these don't
>>> seem to have anything to do with windmills and watermills?
>>>
>>> What about the exiting tags man_made=windpump, man_made=windmill,
>>> man_made=watermill? Are you proposing to deprecate these common tags?
>>>
>>> (also in the examples "actuator=manual" is mentioned, but it isn't in
>>> the
>>> list)
>>>
>>> -- Joseph Eisenberg
>>>
>>> On 3/19/20, Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > François,
>>> >
>>> > Could you please simplify the "==Proposal==" section and make it 100%
>>> > clear:
>>> >
>>> > 1) What new Keys and Tags (Key=Value) are being approved by the
>>> > proposal
>>> > 2) What old Keys and Tags are being deprecated
>>> > 3) Move the Proposal section to the top, before Rationale, so people
>>> > will be clear on what the proposal is going to do if it is approved.
>>> >
>>> > This is the current "==Proposal==" section. It's not clear what new
>>> > tags are being proposed and what old tags are being deprecated.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "It is proposed to complete OSM tagging for pumps used in any domain
>>> > with the following tags :
>>> >
>>> > man_made=pump
>>> > pump:output=*
>>> > pump=* is currenlty established to state if a water well runs with a
>>> > powered or manual pump (actually how the pump is driven if it exists).
>>> > We also need a terminology to define the pump technology as many sorts
>>> > exist in industry. It's then proposed to refurbish this tag with
>>> > values related to pumps mechnanisms.
>>> >
>>> > Devices used to drive pumps (and get water in case of water wells)
>>> > would be better described with existing actuator=* tag instead of
>>> > pump. handle=* is also suitable for manual pumps or emergency usage
>>> > with manual action when power isn't available.
>>> > This option allows to avoid pump:type=* as well."
>>> >
>>> > -- Joseph Eisenberg
>>> >
>>> > On 3/19/20, François Lacombe <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> Hi all,
>>> >>
>>> >> Following several discussions last month, including this one:
>>> >>
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2020-February/051385.html
>>> >>
>>> >> Here is a proposal regarding pumps, obvious devices we all more or
>>> >> less
>>> >> know in industries or at home.
>>> >> This knowledge is useful for water management, water accessibility,
>>> >> industry moderation, emergency response...
>>> >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal
>>> >>
>>> >> Classification is based upon Wikipedia community extensive work about
>>> 15
>>> >> different pumping mechanisms. Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure some
>>> >> technologies are still missing in the proposal.
>>> >>
>>> >> It's currently the most ambitious version, including pump=*
>>> >> conversion
>>> >> for
>>> >> machine mechanisms and moving driver description to existing
>>> >> actuator=*
>>> >> Despite a consequent re-tagging effort (on water wells particularly),
>>> >> here
>>> >> are some pros arguments :
>>> >> - Use more appropriate terminology and wider possibilities for
>>> >> drivers
>>> >> with
>>> >> actuator=*
>>> >> - Avoid pump:type (:type doesn't bring any information)
>>> >> - With 30k occurrences of pump=* and +100k for water wells, there is
>>> >> still
>>> >> more wells to qualify than already qualified with pump availability.
>>> >>
>>> >> Examples are for now incomplete. It would be great to have at least
>>> >> one
>>> >> use
>>> >> case of each value. Feel free to contribute if you have appropriate
>>> >> pictures.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thank in advance for any comment, all the best
>>> >>
>>> >> François
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
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>>>
>>
>