[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Pumps (wells and many other things)

Mon Apr 13 02:26:41 UTC 2020

motion_driver=manual says Hands as the main way to drive the pump

That is not the only 'manual' drive...

Example - horse powered https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/illustration/horse-powdered-pump-royalty-free-illustration/172430485

Note that the horse could be substituted by several humans.

Other methods exist .. such as connecting a bicycle to the pump, much more efficient use of human power.

Suggestion?

motion_driver=manual - Human or animal effort. ?

For alternatives to motion_driver consider power:source?

Note the colon follows its use in

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dgenerator

But I don' think pump:source=* could be used as some may confuse it between the power/energy source and the source of the fluid pumped.

----------------
The descriptions need work ... e..g replace 'typically' with 'example'?

On 13/4/20 11:31 am, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> A search for the phrase "motion driver' finds links to some software.
>
> A search for "motion driver" + "pump" finds women's high-heel shoes.
>
> Perhaps "motion driver' is not the correct term?
>
> A search for "pump driver" finds things about pumps, at least.
>
> Maybe "pump_driver=*" is a better key?
>
> -- Joseph Eisenberg
>
> On 4/13/20, François Lacombe <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>> RFC on pumping proposal is went really well, with significant progresses
>> made these past weeks thanks to useful comments received (see Talk).
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal
>>
>> Tagging has been adapted to take care of several concerns regarding
>> windpumps, wells and semantic complexity relative to benefits it brings.
>> It is still proposed to discourage pump=powered/manual as they're at least
>> redundant with proposed classification of pumps/drivers technologies.
>> Important distinction between manual and powered pumps is still possible
>> with the help of motion_driver key.
>>
>> I'm now looking for more examples with increased diversity of situations.
>> Due to covid lockdown I'm not able to get pictures of pumps in place. It
>> would be a pleasure to give a try to proposed tagging if someone has
>> existing pictures to challenge it.
>> Wikimedia commons will also be a privileged source of pictures as well.
>>
>> Thank in advance for any additional input, all the best
>>
>> François
>>
>> Le jeu. 19 mars 2020 à 22:51, François Lacombe <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com>
>> a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi Joseph and thank you for such a quick and complete comment session
>>>
>>> That 7 points allowed to change the proposal a bit and include
>>> man_made=windmill, watermill instead of actuator.
>>> Answers are available in Talk :
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal
>>> I hope lacks of clarity are now fixed.
>>> In case an answers solve a problem, don't hesitate to use {{Resolved|
>>> comment    }} template to close it.
>>>
>>> Again, anyone would be welcome to propose situations involving pumps to
>>> complete example sections.
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> François
>>>
>>> Le jeu. 19 mars 2020 à 03:27, Joseph Eisenberg
>>> <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
>>> a écrit :
>>>
>>>> I oppose deprecating pump=powered, pump=manual, and pump=no. This is a
>>>> simple, clear system for use with water wells, and it is widely
>>>> supported.
>>>>
>>>> 1) Clarify use with man_made=water_well
>>>>
>>>> Currently 88% of uses of pump=* are with man_made=water_well (the rest
>>>> are with amenity=drinking_water) and with the 3 values: pump=powered,
>>>> pump=manual, pump=no. This is a simple and intuitive system for
>>>> mapping wells in developing countries and rural areas.
>>>>
>>>> Please clarify if you are asking mappers to add a separate
>>>> man_made=pump feature or if that should only be used when there is no
>>>> man_made=water_well feature.
>>>>
>>>> Why should we drop the use of pump=powered, pump=manual, pump=no?
>>>> Distinguishing pump=powered, pump=manual is easy: you can hear the
>>>> sound of an electric or diesel motor, and a manual pump has an obvious
>>>> handle or similar. And pump=no is a well with a bucket or similar.
>>>>
>>>> 2) How can mappers figure out the technology of the pump?
>>>> How are mappers expected to find out the pump technology mechanism?
>>>> Most pumps are located deep inside the well, or hidden in a service
>>>> building or structure next to the well. And why would this information
>>>> be worth mapping?
>>>>
>>>> 3) Key:actuator
>>>> The proposal mentions: actuator=windmill, actuator=watermill, and
>>>> actuator=beam_engine. What do these have to do with pumps?
>>>>
>>>> The current use of the key actuator is quite rare, but the documented
>>>> values are: actuator=manual, actuator=electric_motor,
>>>> actuator=pneumatic_cylinder, actuator=hydraulic_cylinder - these don't
>>>> seem to have anything to do with windmills and watermills?
>>>>
>>>> What about the exiting tags man_made=windpump, man_made=windmill,
>>>> man_made=watermill? Are you proposing to deprecate these common tags?
>>>>
>>>> (also in the examples "actuator=manual" is mentioned, but it isn't in
>>>> the
>>>> list)
>>>>
>>>> -- Joseph Eisenberg
>>>>
>>>> On 3/19/20, Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> François,
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you please simplify the "==Proposal==" section and make it 100%
>>>>> clear:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) What new Keys and Tags (Key=Value) are being approved by the
>>>>> proposal
>>>>> 2) What old Keys and Tags are being deprecated
>>>>> 3) Move the Proposal section to the top, before Rationale, so people
>>>>> will be clear on what the proposal is going to do if it is approved.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the current "==Proposal==" section. It's not clear what new
>>>>> tags are being proposed and what old tags are being deprecated.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "It is proposed to complete OSM tagging for pumps used in any domain
>>>>> with the following tags :
>>>>>
>>>>> man_made=pump
>>>>> pump:output=*
>>>>> pump=* is currenlty established to state if a water well runs with a
>>>>> powered or manual pump (actually how the pump is driven if it exists).
>>>>> We also need a terminology to define the pump technology as many sorts
>>>>> exist in industry. It's then proposed to refurbish this tag with
>>>>> values related to pumps mechnanisms.
>>>>>
>>>>> Devices used to drive pumps (and get water in case of water wells)
>>>>> would be better described with existing actuator=* tag instead of
>>>>> pump. handle=* is also suitable for manual pumps or emergency usage
>>>>> with manual action when power isn't available.
>>>>> This option allows to avoid pump:type=* as well."
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Joseph Eisenberg
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/19/20, François Lacombe <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Following several discussions last month, including this one:
>>>>>>
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2020-February/051385.html
>>>>>> Here is a proposal regarding pumps, obvious devices we all more or
>>>>>> less
>>>>>> know in industries or at home.
>>>>>> This knowledge is useful for water management, water accessibility,
>>>>>> industry moderation, emergency response...
>>>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Classification is based upon Wikipedia community extensive work about
>>>> 15
>>>>>> different pumping mechanisms. Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure some
>>>>>> technologies are still missing in the proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's currently the most ambitious version, including pump=*
>>>>>> conversion
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> machine mechanisms and moving driver description to existing
>>>>>> actuator=*
>>>>>> Despite a consequent re-tagging effort (on water wells particularly),
>>>>>> here
>>>>>> are some pros arguments :
>>>>>> - Use more appropriate terminology and wider possibilities for
>>>>>> drivers
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> actuator=*
>>>>>> - Avoid pump:type (:type doesn't bring any information)
>>>>>> - With 30k occurrences of pump=* and +100k for water wells, there is
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> more wells to qualify than already qualified with pump availability.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Examples are for now incomplete. It would be great to have at least
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> case of each value. Feel free to contribute if you have appropriate
>>>>>> pictures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank in advance for any comment, all the best
>>>>>>
>>>>>> François
>>>>>>
>>>>>

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