[Tagging] Tagging and rendering places without a name

[Florimond Berthoux]

Le mar. 21 avr. 2020 à 06:03, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> a écrit :

> On 21/4/20 5:31 am, Florimond Berthoux wrote:
>
> Hi Hidde, welcome,
>
> The wiki definition is « Used to indicate that a particular location is
> known by a particular name, to indicate what sort of "place" it is. A place
> tag should exist for every significant human settlements (city, town,
> suburb, etc.) and also for notable unpopulated, named places. »
>
> So place is used to precise that :
> 1. there is place at this position or on this area
> 2. it has a name
> 3. to define what kind of place
>
> So by the definition I see no issue of having place without a name tag, as
> long as it has a name :)
>
> Errr If it has a name, tag it. If you don't know its name then how do you
> know it is a place?
>

Ask the mappers who do that, I guess that mapping a village or a town on
remote you can guess it has a name without knowing it.

>
> This is different than landuse for instance :
> A farm has the landuse farmyard, and may have other landuse like
> greenhouse_horticulture, plant_nursery, orchard, meadow, ...
> A barn alone or with some other building in the middle of a meadow can has
> landuse=farmyard but it’s not a farm, it could has a place=locality if it
> has a name.
>
>
> If a building has a name then use the name tag on the building, do not add
> a tag place=* to it!
>
I was talking about the place of the barn and around the barn, not the barn
itself of course.


>
>
>
> Le sam. 18 avr. 2020 à 22:23, Hidde Wieringa <hidde at hiddewieringa.nl> a
> écrit :
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> This is the first time posting to this mailing list. In case this is the
>> wrong place to post my question, feel free to point me to the correct
>> mailing list/forum.
>>
>> I opened an issue in the OSM carto Github repository (
>> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/4115) with
>> the question if places tagged with place=* but without a name could be
>> rendered. The follow-up pull request
>> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/4120 proposes a
>> rendering for unnamed places.
>>
>> A discussion erupted, about the conceptual consequences of rendering a
>> place without a name. This goes against the wiki (
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place) where the tag name=* is
>> marked as required. The first line in the wiki is *"Used to indicate
>> that a particular location is known by a particular name, to indicate what
>> sort of "place" it is. [...]"*. However indicating what sort of place it
>> is, does not require a name. Indicating that a place of some sort exists at
>> a certain location is also valuable data (a quick count of Nigeria gives
>> ~9800 nodes of places without a name versus ~69000 nodes of places with a
>> name).
>>
>> I wish to question the assumption that every place always has or requires
>> a name. The comment of 'sommerluk' on the Github issue (
>> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/4115#issuecomment-612847759)
>> indicates that there may indeed be small populated places without a name,
>> although larger populated places always have a name in practice.
>>
>> Also, regions of the world where on-the-ground mapping is not popular
>> will mostly be mapped by remote mappers. Because of that, mapped places
>> will usually not get a name (yet), because mappers are not locally familiar
>> with the place. The data is still useful for humanitarian aid (for example
>> see https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL&text=nigeria for
>> the many projects in the HOT tasking manager for improving data in Nigeria,
>> in particular missing residential areas). Rendering these places in a
>> visual way makes using the data easier. Later, the unnamed places could
>> still be given a name by a mapper with that knowledge.
>>
>> The tough question is when some place is considered a 'place' and may be
>> mapped when the name is unknown.
>>
>> I am curious about further reactions on this topic.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> *Hidde Wieringa*
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>
>
> --
> Florimond Berthoux
>
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-- 
Florimond Berthoux
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