[Tagging] Implied default access tags for barrier=stile?

[Andy Townsend]

On 26/04/2020 22:15, Philip Barnes wrote:
> On Sunday, 26 April 2020, s8evq wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Are any default access tags implied with barrier=stile?
>> Similar to barrier=bollard (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier%3Dbollard mentions
>> "By default access=no, foot=yes, and bicycle=yes is implied")

That wiki page seems to be considering an access tag as controlling 
_physical_ access rather than _legal_ access.  With the exception of 
"wheelchair", access tags in OSM mostly describe legal access, I believe.

Obviously in most cases the two match ("people aren't allowed to drive 
here so I'll stick a bollard in the road to stop them").

>>
>> If it's on highway=footway, is foot=yes still needed on the barrier?
>>
>> What if the barrier is on a highway=footway + bicycle=yes? Should the barrier itself have foot=yes, bicycle=no or bicycle=dismount ?
>>
> A stile should not exist on a way on which it is legal to ride a bike, unless as often happens on bridleways there is a stile beside a gate to save walkers having to open and close the gate.

I suspect that a bit of context is needed here, and the answer would 
depend on which country we were talking about (and, in the case of at 
least the UK and Germany, which region of that country).

Taking England and Wales as an example, when Phil says "bridleway" I 
suspect he's referring to the England-and-Wales concept of a "public 
bridleway" where people using certain modes of transport (foot, horse, 
bicycle) have a legal right of access, rather than the OSM tag 
"bridleway" ("a way intended for use by horse riders") .  They're 
historical legal rights, and for whatever reason often the path can 
degrade so that they're no longer usable by cyclists (or horse riders or 
pedestrians for that matter).  Any of that happening doesn't mean that 
cyclists aren't legally allowed to use them.

Back to the original question, I'd assume (as Paul humorously replied) 
that barrier=stile implies "bicycle=dismount" from a practical if not a 
legal point of view.  It might be worth having a look at stiles where 
you are to see if any other tags would be useful (the "stile" and 
"step_count" tags might be helpful in thinking whether you physically 
can't get a bike across there, or you'd be able to lift it over).

> It would certainly make me question the validity of the bicycle=yes.

I've certainly seen examples from long ago in OSM (in England) where 
people were using bicycle=yes where there was no legal access, but I 
suspect that it's less common nowadays.  I can think of quite a few 
places that are "bicycle=permissive" (tolerated, but no legal access), 
where you'd need to negotiate any barriers on your own terms with no 
guarantee of physical access.

Best Regards,

Andy