[Tagging] ref on roundabout

Volker Schmidt voschix at gmail.com
Sun Aug 23 20:57:20 UTC 2020


The route ref tag on a roundabout is the logical extension of the route ref
on any other road that is part of route with that ref number.
The arguments for putting the ref in the route relation and not on the ways
making up the route are valid along for roundabout that are part of route.
Trouble arises if both the route members and the route relation carry ref
tags and do not coincide.  A classical is a roundabout that connects
several routes. In that case the relation approach is clean, the "ref on
the members" approach is problematic.

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020, 18:54 Walker Bradley, <walker.t.bradley at gmail.com>
wrote:

> In Afghanistan, there are continuous highways that have roundabouts as
> junctions.  The roundabouts, also have the same Ref because they are part
> of the continuous highway.  For an example check ref=NH0101 ref=NH0102
> ref=NH0103 or ref=NH0104
>
> On Aug 23, 2020, at 10:35, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
> tagging at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
>
>
> Aug 23, 2020, 15:23 by f at zz.de:
>
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 01:28:07PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
> wrote:
>
> Aug 22, 2020, 12:17 by f at zz.de:
>
> > On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 12:09:14PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
> wrote:
> >
> >> I would expect roundabout to be split in parts where
> >> ref is applying and parts where it is not applying, in other words
> >> without any special handling and tag it as usual.
> >>
> >
> > But the point is that on a roundabout the "name" references the name
> > of the _roundabout_ not one of the streets connected to it.
> >
> Yes
>
> > Same should apply to ref as it will reference the Roundabout
>
> why?
>
>
> 1. How do you tag a reference number for a roundabout when suddenly
> the ref contains a ref of one of the streets?
>
> Can you give example of roundabout with its reference number?
>
> For now it feels like a theorethical excercise.
>
> I never considered such case as I have never encountered or
> heard about junction with its ref.
>
> But there are named junctions, and I would look there for inspiration.
>
> 2. Inconsistency - Some informations on the roundabout contain
> informations about itself, and some are just copied over from
> attached streets.
>
> So it is about case where road has its own reference number
> and junction has its own reference number, separate from
> reference number of road routes?
>
>
> Yes - We should be consistent that an object carries informations about
> itself and ONLY itself and not carry on some information of related
> objects. To glue objects together or describe their relation
> we typically use relations. We do this in Germany a lot - So primary
> roads typically have relations carrying all road segments including
> the roundabout.
>
> In Poland road route continues through roaundabout and roaundabout way
> is part of such route.
>
>
> Correct - In Germany - at least for "Straßen NRW" thats the same. The
> road surface of the roundabout is part of the Road through it. But
> nevertheless - OSM has had a different Data Model to address/reference
> roundabouts itself to be able to do landmark routing e.g
>
> "Take 1st exit at the Hampstead Roundabout, then take the 2nd exit at
> the Foobar Roundabout".
>
> For this to work you have to put the information about the roundabout
> itself somewhere. This has been documented for ages to be the
> way carrying the junction=roundabout which has a name tag on its own.
>
> So using ref on the roundabout for either the road, or a reference
> of the roundabout breaks the assumptions that informations on the
> junction=roundabout only refer to the roundabout. With this concept
> it may sometimes refer to one or more roads which are connected to the
> roundabout. This basically makes the information useless.
>
> Flo
> --
> Florian Lohoff f at zz.de
> UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away
>
>
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