[Tagging] Power Storage Proposal (RFC)

[François Lacombe]

Le mer. 30 déc. 2020 à 17:00, Christian Pietzsch <
christian.pietzsch at piespace.de> a écrit :

> But do they really use non-rechargable batteries? I guess for these
> edge-cases power=generator + generator:type=battery would be a solution.
> But all isolated cases I have stumbled across that are big enough to
> include into OSM (not thinking of the clock on my neighbors wall xD) have
> some kind of way of recharging them. Thinking of remote telecom towers here
> that often use diesel generator or some installations that use car
> batteries (sometimes charged by solar).
>

Underground or arctic off-grid facilities may encounter situations were
there is no sun nor wind to be charged and you're forced to come
periodically to change the battery.

Defining two different ways to describe batteries based on their
capabilities (primary or secondary) is once again a poor idea: mappers will
be confused on which power=* they should choose.


> I have to disagree here. For me a fuel cell has no storage capacity at
> all. It takes fuel and consumes it. Just like an engine takes fuel and
> consumes it. The fuel is stored in tanks (which would still be tagged as
> normal storage tanks at the facility). But for me the whole facility that
> turns electricity to fuel and back to electricity has a storage capacity.
> So only the power=plant would get a storage:capacity. And would get a
> storage:type=power-to-gas
> I will probably have to take the power-to-x methods out and place them a
> bit separately to better distinguish them from other storage methods.
>

Agree on that point, split the table between plant and device storage level
is a good point.
It's not mandatory to define several key for that. Compatibility with
power=plant and generator/batteries can be handled on values.

It's an easy change. I will leave it open for now and see what others think
> about the idea. I might make a note in the proposal as well
>

It's not an easy change as generator:type is now pretty well used.
However new keys should be designed with experience in mind and :type
should be avoided.

Le mer. 30 déc. 2020 à 17:49, Paul Allen <pla16021 at gmail.com> a écrit :

>
> Both generators and batteries are power sources, but not all power sources
> are generators, just as not all power sources are batteries.
>

Are you only considering generators as kinetic energy converters only?
Wikipedia EN does, without proper source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_generator

Wikipedia FR doesn't, without proper source
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A9n%C3%A9rateur_%C3%A9lectrique#G%C3%A9n%C3%A9rateur_non_tournant

Anyway, OSM already have many solar PV panels as power=generator.
Will we have to retag them?


> A source of electrical energy.  I agree with that.  What it doesn't say is
> that
> it's a generator.
>

As current OSM current definition for a generator is a device converting a
non-electric power to electricity (or even any other form) I don't get the
difference between them, honestly.

But a battery is not considered an energy transducer.
>

Transducers are a very wide family of devices and to me batteries are
actual transducers.
Not all transducers are generators as they includes sensors as well.


> Give a list of storage-capable devices and see what the list comes up with
> for names. :)
>

Many items of proposed table are not batteries
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_storage#Tagging

Is that relevant to define a different power=* value for each?


> Also, I understand the desire to tag everything related to power generation
> under power, but electrical storage devices store energy, not power.
> Electrical Engineers and physicists would be upset at the idea of
> storing power.
>

OSM power=* key covers many activities related to electricity production,
transmission or usage.
We didn't come to a point to make a difference between power and energy
here.

All the best

François
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