[Tagging] Cycle boxes for two-stage left turns

Jarek Piórkowski jarek at piorkowski.ca
Wed Jan 8 01:32:15 UTC 2020


On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 at 12:15, Florimond Berthoux
<florimond.berthoux at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I think it’s a good thing to map these two stage turn for bicycles.
> I can’t see better solution than using relation (unless doing surface mapping...).
>
> Le lun. 6 janv. 2020 à 04:21, Jarek Piórkowski <jarek at piorkowski.ca> a écrit :
> > - relation with tag type=bicycle_two_stage_turn (comments on this
> > particularly welcome! it doesn't really seem to be a route=bicycle
> > since it doesn't have a designated network=*?)
> If we copy what we have in France for give way for cyclist at traffic light https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Bicycle#Panonceaux_de_C.C3.A9dez-le-passage_cycliste_au_feu
> type=restriction
> restriction:bicycle=two_stage_turn
> And the relation have three members with from, via, to.

Hm, I would think that a restriction-type relation would necessarily
restrict what's possible, whereas a two-stage turn box gives more
possibilities rather than takes away possibilities (at least in cases
where it's not mandatory).

However: Does the French sign mean that the cyclist is not required to
obey a red light but instead is only required to yield? If yes, then
that's similar to the two-stage turn box (it gives more possibilities
rather than restricts), and if that's already established, I'll be
happy to go along with a similar scheme.

> > - optionally segregated=yes if there is a designated, separated
> > waiting area for the bikes rather than only a painted area that is
> > also driven over by other vehicles (would usually be at particularly
> > wide intersections or at T-intersections)
> I disagree, today the use of segregated key is for path where the segregation is made from painting line. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:segregated
> If we use the key segrageted for physically segragation by kerb or island that can lead easily to mistakes.
> May be use waiting_area=painting_box if there is only painting, and waiting_area=track ? island ? if it is physically protected.

Ah right, then let's not use segregated. If there is no better
existing tag to reuse, a waiting_area=painted_box and
waiting_area=track seem good to me. Or to match values in
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway#Dedicated_cycle_lanes
how about waiting_area=advisory and waiting_area=exclusive?

> I think it can be interessting to know if the two stage turn is mandatory or not for the cyclist, I’m not talking about national law here but only if there is a traffic sign saying this obligation.
> mandatory=yes ?

Yeah, that could work. `mandatory` is already in use on the
Key:cycleway wiki page as linked above, so using it as mandatory=yes
could work (if indeed there is such an obligation somewhere).

Thanks,
--Jarek



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