[Tagging] recreational vs functional routes

Joseph Eisenberg joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com
Sun Jan 12 23:23:50 UTC 2020


Paris is the capital of France because it has all the main government
facilities: the legislature, the executive, the judiciary and most
ministries.

Routes that are mapped in Openstreetmap need to be signed or marked in a
visible way. Otherwise every Stava user will add their favorite training
loop to the map as a running route or road cycling route.

Joseph

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:02 AM Florimond Berthoux <
florimond.berthoux at gmail.com> wrote:

> Asking me how do I know that Eurovelo 3 is for tourism or bicycle trekking
> is like asking me how do I know that Paris is the capital of France.
> « Is there a sign saying that Paris is the capital of France? May be we
> should remove that tag, don't you think?... »
>
> You don't need sign post to have a route, do you have a sign post at the
> intersection of those routes ?
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/45.1485/-4.1705
> I doubt that.
>
> This is how the Wiki define a route:
> « A *route* is a customary or regular line of passage or travel, often
> predetermined and publicized. Routes consist of paths taken repeatedly by
> people and vehicles: a ship on the North Atlantic route, a car on a
> numbered road, a bus on its route or a cyclist on a national route. »
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route
>
> So to paraphrase this for road biking route :
> « A road bicycle *route* is a customary or regular line of passage or
> travel, often predetermined and publicized as such. Road bicycle routes
> consist of paths taken repeatedly by road cyclist. »
>
> And if you don't know then don't tag it and don't manage it.
>
> Le sam. 11 janv. 2020 à 23:35, Joseph Eisenberg <
> joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> > >  I am not against distinguishing more types of cycling routes, I am
> all for it, as long as it's verifyable, mappable with clear tagging, and
> manageable.
> >
> > +1
> >
> > I started using Openstreetmap because I wanted to add touring routes
> > and recreational bike routes in RideWithGPS and then found out that
> > http://ridewithgps.com uses Openstreetmap data which I could edit. And
> > I get to work and take kids to school and shop by bike - I haven't
> > owned a car for 9 years.
> >
> > So I would love to have more information about what streets and roads
> > are best for getting from point A to B, and which ones are nice for
> > training rides and which ones are fun for tours.
> >
> > But tags have to be verifiable: if the next mapper can't confirm that
> > a tag as right, the data in Openstreetmap will not be maintained
> > properly. Subjective tags cannot work.
> >
> > I have seen this happen: before I mapped here, I used to try to
> > improve the bike routes in Portland Oregon for Google Maps. But since
> > there was no definition of a "preferred" bicycle street, and it was
> > hard to delete a preferred route once it was added, the bike layer was
> > full of disconnected segments. Some were from old city maps of bike
> > routes, some were based on the personal preference of the mapper, and
> > some were actually signed or marked on the ground, but you couldn't
> > tell them apart.
> >
> > If there is a sign or marking that specifies that a certain route is
> > designed for mountain bikes or for bike racing, then sure, you can tag
> > that. But most bike routes do not have anything to specify that they
> > are more for commuting or more for recreation, and in that case we
> > can't tag the distinction.
> >
> > Fortunately, database users (like routing applications) can look at
> > other Openstreetmap data, like surface=* tags on ways, and external
> > data like elevation models, to determine if a route is a difficult
> > single-track trail through the hills versus a flat paved path along a
> > canal, and use this to help route cyclists appropriately.
> >
> > - Joseph Eisenberg
>
> --
> Florimond Berthoux
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>
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