[Tagging] Central European insight needed: cukrászda, cukrárna, cukiernia, ciastkarnia, cukráre?, pasticceria, konditorei, patisserie, ...

bkil bkil.hu+Aq at gmail.com
Wed Jul 1 00:41:15 UTC 2020

> But then how do we handle food places in food courts?
> They would all count as =fast_food, as everything is already cooked / prepared, & they are takeaway only from the actual shopfront, but there is seating & tables 5m's away, so are they takeaway or sit-down?

These kind of places around food courts are indeed amenity=fast_food
restaurants. They aren't takeaway=only, because they almost always
offer a tray, napkins, plates and utensils that you need to take back
after you are finished (or leave it at the common collection point),
although some may be throw-away and you get to use the waste basket,
table and chair as well.

If I took away my food from a restaurant and sat down right in front
of them, they would probably ask me to leave and stay out of sight.

But still if you are in general taking your food away, you only get a
box in a bag (or if you bring your own box and bag, you get nothing
other than your food).

How much I'd write in capacity=* is another question - actually adding
capacity=food_court and giving a total capacity on the separate food
court polygon would make more sense, but it's not standard practice

> When I was working at the Uni several years ago, we'd go over to one of the coffee shops for morning coffee. It was a kiosk only, & they only served tea & coffee, together with bottled water & you could also buy bottles of milk from them to take back to the staff kitchens. Fine, so it's a =coffeeshop. But, they also had a container on the counter full of biscuits (cookies) for sale! Does that then make them a cafe?

It's still a café as per the definition: you primarily go there to
grab a cup of coffee or tea, and you can also get something to go with
that - cookies (by the way, in Hungary, it's called tea cookies/tea
cakes/tea pastry/tea desserts just because of this!).

> Similar to the food-court set-up ^, there were tables & chairs out the front, but not for their exclusive use - anybody could sit & have a chat, coffee or eat their lunch that they'd brought from somewhere else.

I think I know what you mean, we also have these. If I need to bring
back something after I'm finished, it's not takeaway=only. Otherwise
you can add a bunch of picnic tables in front of the building with
access=customers and that would solve it for all intents and purposes.

> That (at least to me?) then raises the problem of opening hours (which I know can easily be defined). The vast majority of "cafes / coffee shops" (places you can get a tea / coffee & a light meal) around here open at ~6am, but they then close at ~2-3pm - they're not open after work or for an evening meal.
> Similarly, most restaurants (full table service of a multi-course meal) don't open till ~6pm, then stay open till 11-12.
> Does that affect the cafe / restaurant definition dilemma?

Here's an overview from Hungary.
A typical restaurant around here is open between 10:00-22:00 or 12:00-24:00.
A typical small pub stays open the longest, some are non-stop, but
most open in the morning and close in the evening.
Better and larger pubs typically follow the opening hours of
restaurants, maybe closing an hour or two later on party nights, so
let's say between 12:00-01:00.
A typical café/coffee shop opens in the morning and closes earlier in
the evening, like 08:00-20:00, some up to 9pm.
A typical cukrászda aligns with typical shops, open between
10:00-18:00, or some up to 7pm.
Fast food places vary a lot: they can be either non-stop, tied to the
opening hours of the containing facility (like shopping mall
10:00-20:00 or a theatre nearby) or mostly focused around lunch times.

You could typically frequent a cukrászda right after work hours or on
weekends, though some may consider giving a visit at the end of a
longish lunch break.

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