[Tagging] Clearer definition of tunnel=flooded: when should it be used instead of tunnel=yes or tunnel=culvert?

Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Sun Mar 22 23:34:00 UTC 2020

On 23/3/20 9:08 am, Volker Schmidt wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 at 19:09, François Lacombe 
> <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com <mailto:fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     Hi Volker,
>     ...
>     Fully disposed to make any improvement to wiki according to those
>     points.
> Thanks, Francois.
> There is possibly a language bias (error?) in the use of tunnel=flooded.
> I am not a native speaker, but "flooded" to me means at least "more 
> water than normal", and from this discussion it seems that we are 
> talking about the normal presence of water in these structures.

Normal? No I don't think so. Some 'tunnels may be designed only to carry 
water and have no real room for anything else.  I am thinking of hydo 
schemes where tunnels are used

To me 'tunnel=flooded' means that is cannot really be used for/by 
anything other than the fluid in it due to the very small amount of 
space left, if any.

Humm ... a smaller description? '"tunnel=flooded' ... full or nearly 
full of fluid so that the tunnel cannot be used for anything else' ???

> Tag use tunnel=flooded: 2 in the UK,
> >> Many, if not the majority of the UK Inland Waterways canals have no 
> tow-path.
> > Then tunnel=flooded is more appropriate.
> No, definitely not. These tunnels are not "flooded" at all, the water 
> level in them is carefully controlled
> (The original method of powering the boats in these canals were men 
> laying on their back and "walking" with their feet upwards along the 
> tunnel ceiling. The French canals, being constructed later, generally 
> did have tow-paths also in the tunnels see for example the 
> Tunnel_de_Mauvages 
> <https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffr.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTunnel_de_Mauvages&psig=AOvVaw3UK-_RmcKBM_5fKTGMZyjW&ust=1584997257128000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA0QjhxqFwoTCOijlIn9rugCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAS>. 
> I remember when I was a boy my father showed me the tractors pulling 
> the ships through the old tunnel near Arzwiller in Alsace on the same 
> canal)
> They are uniformly tagged (correctly) as waterway=canal and tunnel=yes.
> I mentioned them in the context that tunnel=yes does not imply a 
> tow-path.
> I had glanced at yourHydropower water supplies proposal, but I think I 
> failed to intervene on three specific points:
>  1. The first one are the inverted siphons (botte sifone
>     <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botte_sifone>, pont-siphon
>     <https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont-siphon>), which are
>     gravity-pressurised always-water-filled sections of non-navigable
>     canals. I usually map them as culverts, and i have just started to
>     add the new tag culvert=inverted_siphon to the first three of them.
>  2. The second point is that the distinction between water-filled and
>     part-filled water conducts is problematic: culverts that are
>     frequently used to conduct free-flowing drains, ditches,
>     irrigation canals, freshwater canals under roads can be anything
>     from empry to fully filled (and slightly pressurised) depending on
>     precipitations.
>  3. waterway=pressurised cannot be used together with waterway=canal
>     for the inverted-siphon situation
> Volker

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