[Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

pangose at riseup.net pangose at riseup.net
Wed Mar 25 10:00:30 UTC 2020


Honestly I don't think it makes sense for OSM to have names at all on objects which has a Wikidata reference. We are just too small a community to keep this updated and it has little value to duplicate to the efforts made by others. 
If any names I suggest we have a bot autoupdating all name tags according to the values in Wikidata. If there is no Wikidata item it should be found/created.
It really is'nt hard to populate a map with geographical data from OSM and query the names the user wants to see from WD.
This offloads a huge burden as I see it.
All our tools that currently invites our users to include a name could be adapted so that the user is aware that OSM is about geodata and names are for WD and best stored/updated there.
If we allow a name to be set only when no qid we avoid the bulk of these problems. 
When a qid is set a bot could remove all names for languages already present in WD.

On March 25, 2020 10:45:03 AM GMT+01:00, Andrew Hain <andrewhainosm at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>Why on earth would we not (excluding exceptional copyright issues) want
>to have lots of different name:XX tags?
>
>--
>Andrew
>
>________________________________
>From: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
>Sent: 25 March 2020 09:26
>To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
><tagging at openstreetmap.org>
>Subject: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?
>
>Hi,
>
>the "name:xx" tags are something of an exception in OSM because while
>we
>defer to "local knowledge" as the highest-ranking source normally, this
>is not being done for name:xx tags. It is possible for no single
>citizen
>of the city of Karlsruhe to know its Russian name, but still a Russian
>name could exist. Who is the highest-ranking source for that?
>
>My guess is that about 5% of name:xx tags in OSM actually represent a
>unique name in its own right; all others are either copies of the name
>tag ("this city does not have its own name in language XX but I want
>every city to have a name:xx tag so I'll just copy the name tag"), or
>transliterations (or, worst case, even literal translations).
>
>A while ago we had a longer discussion about Esperanto names; in that
>discussion, it was questioned whether Esperanto could be in the name
>tag
>but nobody disputed that adding name:eo tags is ok, even though
>Esperanto is an invented (or "constructed") language.
>
>Yesterday someone added a few dozen Klingon names to countries in OSM.
>I
>have reverted that because of a copyright issue, but I think we also
>need to discuss which languages we want to accept for name:xx tags.
>
>In my opinion, a name:xx tag should only be added if you can
>demonstrate
>that people natively speaking the living language xx are actually using
>this name for this entity. I think we have a very unhealthy inflation
>of
>names in OSM that are added by "single-purpose mappers" - they come in,
>stick a name:my-favourite-language tag onto everything, and go away
>again. Nobody knows if these names are even correct, and nobody cares
>for their maintenance. The country North Macedonia changed its name
>almost one year ago, yet roughly half of its ~ 170 name tags are still
>what they were before this change. Nobody cares; these names suggest a
>data richness that is not backed up by an actual living community that
>cares for them.
>
>What are your opinions on which languages should be accepted in name
>tags? What do you think about
>
>* niche constructed languages (say, FredLang which has 2 words I
>invented just now)
>* popular constructed languages (Klingon, Elvish) - note place names in
>these languages will often be algorithmically derived from the English
>or local name
>* "serious" constructed languages (Esperanto)
>* languages that once existed but are not natively spoken any more
>(Roman)
>* languages that are natively spoken but their speakers do not have
>their own name for the entity in question (instead they use the same
>name the locals use, possibly transcribed into a different alphabet)
>* ...
>
>Or if you don't have the time to think about this in detail, just
>answer
>the question: tlhIngan Hol - Hlja' or ghobe'?
>
>Bye
>Frederik
>
>--
>Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09"
>E008°23'33"
>
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