[Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

Simon Poole simon at poole.ch
Wed Mar 25 21:48:45 UTC 2020


Note that lots of the wikidata names are nonsense and are simply derived
from the wikipedia page name (which a wp page has to have, but it
doesn't imply that the object actually has a name in the language of the
wikipedia you are looking at). For example the municipality I live in
has a German and a Swiss-German name, it -doesn't- have names in any of
the other 31 languages that are listed.

Simon

Am 25.03.2020 um 11:00 schrieb pangose at riseup.net:
> Honestly I don't think it makes sense for OSM to have names at all on
> objects which has a Wikidata reference. We are just too small a
> community to keep this updated and it has little value to duplicate to
> the efforts made by others.
> If any names I suggest we have a bot autoupdating all name tags
> according to the values in Wikidata. If there is no Wikidata item it
> should be found/created.
> It really is'nt hard to populate a map with geographical data from OSM
> and query the names the user wants to see from WD.
> This offloads a huge burden as I see it.
> All our tools that currently invites our users to include a name could
> be adapted so that the user is aware that OSM is about geodata and
> names are for WD and best stored/updated there.
> If we allow a name to be set only when no qid we avoid the bulk of
> these problems.
> When a qid is set a bot could remove all names for languages already
> present in WD.
>
> On March 25, 2020 10:45:03 AM GMT+01:00, Andrew Hain
> <andrewhainosm at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>     Why on earth would we not (excluding exceptional copyright issues)
>     want to have lots of different name:XX tags?
>
>     --
>     Andrew
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
>     *Sent:* 25 March 2020 09:26
>     *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
>     <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
>     *Subject:* [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?
>      
>     Hi,
>
>     the "name:xx" tags are something of an exception in OSM because
>     while we
>     defer to "local knowledge" as the highest-ranking source normally,
>     this
>     is not being done for name:xx tags. It is possible for no single
>     citizen
>     of the city of Karlsruhe to know its Russian name, but still a Russian
>     name could exist. Who is the highest-ranking source for that?
>
>     My guess is that about 5% of name:xx tags in OSM actually represent a
>     unique name in its own right; all others are either copies of the name
>     tag ("this city does not have its own name in language XX but I want
>     every city to have a name:xx tag so I'll just copy the name tag"), or
>     transliterations (or, worst case, even literal translations).
>
>     A while ago we had a longer discussion about Esperanto names; in that
>     discussion, it was questioned whether Esperanto could be in the
>     name tag
>     but nobody disputed that adding name:eo tags is ok, even though
>     Esperanto is an invented (or "constructed") language.
>
>     Yesterday someone added a few dozen Klingon names to countries in
>     OSM. I
>     have reverted that because of a copyright issue, but I think we also
>     need to discuss which languages we want to accept for name:xx tags.
>
>     In my opinion, a name:xx tag should only be added if you can
>     demonstrate
>     that people natively speaking the living language xx are actually
>     using
>     this name for this entity. I think we have a very unhealthy
>     inflation of
>     names in OSM that are added by "single-purpose mappers" - they
>     come in,
>     stick a name:my-favourite-language tag onto everything, and go away
>     again. Nobody knows if these names are even correct, and nobody cares
>     for their maintenance. The country North Macedonia changed its name
>     almost one year ago, yet roughly half of its ~ 170 name tags are still
>     what they were before this change. Nobody cares; these names suggest a
>     data richness that is not backed up by an actual living community that
>     cares for them.
>
>     What are your opinions on which languages should be accepted in name
>     tags? What do you think about
>
>     * niche constructed languages (say, FredLang which has 2 words I
>     invented just now)
>     * popular constructed languages (Klingon, Elvish) - note place
>     names in
>     these languages will often be algorithmically derived from the English
>     or local name
>     * "serious" constructed languages (Esperanto)
>     * languages that once existed but are not natively spoken any more
>     (Roman)
>     * languages that are natively spoken but their speakers do not have
>     their own name for the entity in question (instead they use the same
>     name the locals use, possibly transcribed into a different alphabet)
>     * ...
>
>     Or if you don't have the time to think about this in detail, just
>     answer
>     the question: tlhIngan Hol - Hlja' or ghobe'?
>
>     Bye
>     Frederik
>
>
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