[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Refugee Site Location

European Water Project europeanwaterproject at gmail.com
Thu Mar 26 08:57:06 UTC 2020

Hi Joseph,

Would segregation of data via a namespace tagging solution, as an
alternative to using place=refugee_site, address these concerns regarding
fuzzy "place" boundaries and the lack of observability (ie source based
descriptive data)?

Best regards,


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 00:40 Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>

> In the previous proposal (Proposed features/Refugee Site Location) at
> least 6 people who opposed the proposal mentioned the key "place=" was
> not acceptable.
> Comments:
> "What about places that are de facto village/town but still
> administered by UNHCR or another humanitarian organization or
> governmental agency?"
> "...many long-term refugee camps have developed into a village or
> town, where people live for many year. These permanent settlements
> should be tagged as place=village or place=town, so if the tag for
> refugee sites uses the same place=* key, then it is not possible to
> use both at once."
> "A refugee camp or site is more like a landuse=residential area or an
> amenity=social_facility, so perhaps consider using
> landuse=refugee_site or amenity=refugee_site, or a subtag of
> landuse=residential, like residential=refugee_site?" (
> "Using the place tag for this causes problems in situations where the
> distinction between a refugee camp and a town is vague. Is a
> settlement of over 100,000 people, that's existed for 30 years and has
> schools, hospitals and a graveyard a city or a camp? I think it should
> be tagged as both. If it isn't then OSM will either not have some of
> the biggest refugee camps mapped, or it not have some of the largest
> towns/cities in the area mapped. Either would be a serious omission.
> Because of that, the refugee site should be tagged outside of the
> place tag."
> I'm disappointed that these concerns are being ignored. Instead, we
> are told "''we recommend using only this key place=refugee_site and
> not village/city since these sites have a status permanently different
> to a “regular” populated place (the common legal framework of the
> country doesn’t apply to it)''". That is ''not'' how we map places in
> Openstreetmap.
> See "Good_practice" "Don't  map your local legislation, if not bound
> to objects in reality" and "Verifiability": we don't map what a
> country claims to be true, but what is actually real. If a "camp" is a
> 30 year old settlement with >10,000 residentis, plus shops, clinics,
> schools, places of worship etc, then it is a place=town, no matter
> what the local government says.
> Of course it can also be a refugee_site in a way, so the tag for a
> refugree site should be something that does not conflict with
> place=village/town.
> Also, is there already an Import page set up by CartONG for the
> proposal to import this info from the UNHCR database?
> -- Joseph Eisenberg
> On 3/25/20, Manon Viou <m_viou at cartong.org> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > The proposed feature place=refugee_site to provide a way for mapping
> places
> > sheltering refugees and/or internally displaced persons fleeing the
> effects
> > of a natural disaster or a political crisis for example has already been
> > debated and voted on from 30-01-2020 to 17-03-2020. It was then rejected
> by
> > a narrow margin on the final day of voting.
> >
> > We have since tried to answer to the concerns and comments received, and
> to
> > adapt and simplify the proposed tag to map refugee site location.
> >
> > We would like to discuss this tag with all interested people again during
> > the Request For Comment phase, open until Friday, April 3rd. Thank you !
> >
> > Please visit the new feature proposal wiki page here :
> >
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Refugee_Site_Location_2
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Manon
> >
> > [image: CartONG- Humanitarian mapping and information management]
> >
> > Manon Viou
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