[Tagging] Fwd: Section numbers in hiking routes

Sun May 24 09:09:44 UTC 2020

Thanks for the examples. I will leave the splitting and punctuation issue
for now, I think it's fine as it is.
In the second example, the stage numbers should not be in the name unless
the names are actually shown like that on the signs. See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only

Assuming that is not the case, I would like a separate tag in the stage
relation to store the "official" stage number. That's all I am after at the
moment. If we can agree on a suitable key, my plan is:
1. add the he tag to a bunch of foot routes in Nederland.
2. ask developers to handle this as appropriate for their applications and
tools
3. once tools and applications handle the tag, I will remove
stage/section/segment/leg numbers form the name.

What about section_ref=<section ref> ?

To qualify as a ref, the section/stage/segment numbers or codes should be
listed somewhere by the operator.
The tag could be applied to all officially segmented routes with section
refs.

Best, Peter Elderson

Op zo 24 mei 2020 om 10:18 schreef s8evq <s8evqq at runbox.com>:

> First example:
>
> Superrelation GR5 (https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4580796)
> consists of the following 8 relation members:
>
> GR 5 Netherlands (9176775)
> GR 5 Belgium, Flanders (3121667)
> GR 5 Belgium, Wallonia (3121668)
> GR 5 Luxembourg (2790499)
> GR 5 Lorraine (2029679)
> GR 5 Vosges (1956165)
> GR 5 Jura (6095322)
> GR 5 Alpes Côte d'Azur (2704286)
>
> Similar how Kevin Kenny organised the Long Path (
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/919642), they are split up by
> geographic region. In the case of the Long Path, it's by county.
>
> Peter, would you find this acceptable? Do you want to try reach some
> consensus on the splitting? Do you want to go even further and try to align
> the punctuation? (we use comma, dash, brackets etc...). I think it should
> be at least possible to find a consensus between Belgium and The
> Netherlands on that.
>
>
> Second example:
> Superrelation Monte Rosa Tour (
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/10353523) is split up in stages.
> As far as I can tell, this relation is split up in daily stages, each time
> starting and ending at a mountain hut.
>
> Monte Rosa tour stage 1 (958608)
> Monte Rosa tour stage 2 (9214075)
> Monte Rosa tour stage 3 (9234148)
> Monte Rosa tour stage 4 (9234975)
> Monte Rosa tour stage 5 (9235092)
> Monte Rosa tour stage 6 (9237283)
> Monte Rosa tour stage 7 (9242908)
> Monte Rosa tour stage 8 (9243123)
> Monte Rosa tour stage 9 (9243530)
> Monte Rosa tour stage 10 (9231294)
>
> Is it possible that this information is actually copyright protected, if
> it's copied from a guidebook? Nevertheless, it's useful information. Peter,
> would you want to move this "stage x" information in a separate tag?
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 23 May 2020 20:37:39 +0200, Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > For now, I just want an alternative for the section/segment/leg numbers
> or
> > refs that are often in the name tag now.
> > They are there to get neat ordered lists in tools and applications. That
> > seems to work fine, but it abuses the name tag, which I am told is a
> > problem for searching routines. A name tag should contain a proper name
> as
> > found on the street, and nothing else, that's the short version of some
> > very long rants I have encountered...
> >
> > At the moment, I move comments, descriptions, distance and trail refs to
> > the appropriate tags.
> > From-via-to information I copy to the from, via and to tags.
> > I just need a nice and intuitive tag to copy the ordering information to.
> >
> > Vr gr Peter Elderson
> >
> >
> > Op za 23 mei 2020 om 19:59 schreef Jo <winfixit at gmail.com>:
> >
> > > oh, I'm mapping public transport too much. I actually did mean to write
> > > superroute.
> > >
> > > Jo
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 7:44 PM Yves <yvecai at mailbox.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> While the original question was about a good tag to record the section
> > >> number, whick look like a reference, I would be tempted to answer Jo
> that
> > >> to know which country you're in, you should look at Your OSM Database!
> > >> Joke aside, such a cross border route makes a good candidate for a
> super
> > >> route.
> > >> Yves
> > >>
> > >> Le 23 mai 2020 18:49:31 GMT+02:00, Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> a écrit :
> > >>>
> > >>> So in the case of a route that passes through The Netherlands,
> Belgium
> > >>> and France, the part in The Netherlands and Flanders will have the
> same
> > >>> name (in Dutch)? And the parts in Wallonia and France will have the
> same
> > >>> name as well, but in French instead? No indication which
> country/region
> > >>> they are passing through?
> > >>>
> > >>> Jo
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 6:42 PM Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Hold on to your hat.... In the name tag I will store...The Name Of
> The
> > >>>> Route!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Op za 23 mei 2020 om 18:18 schreef Jo <winfixit at gmail.com>:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> In the end, what will be left in the name tag exactly?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Polyglot
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 5:53 PM Peter Elderson <
> pelderson at gmail.com>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> I am trying to improve on the name-tag mess in the many
> hiking/foot
> > >>>>>> routes in Nederland. All kinds of information is packed in those
> names. I
> > >>>>>> am not doing any cleaning (yet) until all this information can be
> stored in
> > >>>>>> proper tags and is handled or scheduled by significant
> renderers/data
> > >>>>>> users/tools. There must be reasons for this (ab)use, because it
> is done all
> > >>>>>> over the globe.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> It's very common to store <from>-<to> and sometimes <via> in the
> name
> > >>>>>> tag. That's an easy one: we have from=*, via=*, to=*.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Sometimes a complete description, a comment or a note (.e.g.
> about a
> > >>>>>> temporary detour) is added to the name. Easy: we have
> description=, note=*,
> > >>>>>> comment=*.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> A ref in the name: store in ref=*.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Another item is *section number*. This is often used when the
> route
> > >>>>>> is split in sections, often according to the sectioning given by
> the
> > >>>>>> operator/website. So firstly it's a sort of reference, secondly
> its an
> > >>>>>> ordering and sorting mechanism.
> > >>>>>> Sometimes sections have their own name. I see that a lot in
> > >>>>>> international (super)routes.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Any ideas how to do this without (ab)using the name tag? Is there
> a
> > >>>>>> proper tag that springs to mind, or should we invent one?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Peter Elderson
> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>> Tagging mailing list
> > >>>>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> > >>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Tagging mailing list
> > >>>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> > >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > _______________________________________________
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>
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