[Tagging] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

[Colin Smale]

On 2020-05-27 08:17, Arne Johannessen wrote:

> Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <tagging at openstreetmap.org> wrote: May 26, 2020, 08:28 by arne at thaw.de: Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <tagging at openstreetmap.org> wrote: 
> Maybe it can be argued that there is implicit permission for delivery services?
> My uncle has farm, with clearly private yard (it is unsigned).
> 
> Postman or package delivery would be welcomed there and - even if package 
> would not be requested, but random person driving to
> front of his house would not be and AFAIK would violate law. 
> I think what you're describing is access=destination, not =private.

Why? 
I interpreted "random person" as meaning "random traffic, not destined
for your uncle's residence".

But perhaps you meant that the person is in fact a visitor destined for
your uncle's residence - maybe trying to sell something or conducting a
poll or whatever - and that doing so would be illegal? If so, in what
way is it "clear" to the visitor that what they're doing is illegal? 
It wouldn't be illegal, it might be unlawful, which is a slightly
different concept. If it went to court, I am sure the judge would
consider whether the visitor had "reasonable grounds" to go to the door.
Door-to-door selling (assuming that activity is permitted in general)
would probably be "reasonable grounds", unless your uncle had put up a
sign like "no salesmen." But then again, if the visitor rang the bell at
4 in the morning, he had better have a good story. 

In the UK simple trespass to land is not illegal, it is for the
landowner to claim under civil law: "unjustifiable interference with
land which is in the immediate and exclusive possession of another".
What constitutes "unjustifiable" is the key here. Delivering a package
would sound like justification to me (IANAL). 

>> "access=destination" means "no transit traffic, no other restrictions".
> 
> Not quite. access=destination means "traffic for a particular destination only". When used on a residential driveway, the destination would be the residence itself (or perhaps a garage attached to it). 
> 
> access=private means even traffic destined for that residence is disallowed, including both salesmen and postmen.

But it is allowed with implicit/explicit permission... 

> access=permissive means any traffic is allowed (e. g. random kids racing their motor scooters).

...but that permission/tolerance on the part of the landowner can be
withdrawn at any time - your right to use that highway is not set in
law, it is permitted by the landowner for the time being. 

Actually one could claim that motorways and other "special roads" in the
UK might actually come into this category - they are explicitly not
public highways. 

> At least that's how I see it. I know not everyone agrees, and I'm not sure if that's due to misunderstanding (possibly on my part?) or due to lack of consensus.
> 
> What changes nothing for a typical driveway.
> Depends on the area I guess. But yes, I would say that to me, access=destination does seem like a sensible default value for driveways in OSM.
> 
> [access=private wiki page]
> 
> It also doesn't make a clear enough distinction between private ownership and private access (by using the term "private" colloqiually and by showing a picture of what looks like an ownership=private situation).Changed a bit in
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:access%3Dprivate&diff=1995183&oldid=1986562
> Yes, that's slightly better.
> 
> I think the =private wiki page could be improved by clarifying that =private really does require _explicit_ prior permission.I added "Permission may be implicit, for example delivering a package into a house."
> on Key:Access and Tag:access=private pages, as it appears to match the actual usage.
> I disagree with this edit for the reasons explained at some length in my previous message.

I disagree that permission needs to be explicit for access=private. You
need permission, that's all. And that permission is in the exclusive
gift of the landowner (or their delegate). However with
access=permissive you may assume that permission is granted, whereas
with access=private permission is not granted by default (you need to
ascertain that you have permission, be it explicit or implicit). 

> Also: Can you explain how one would _implicitly_ arrange permission on an _individual_ basis?

You don't need to arrange "implicit" permission. If you did, it would
become "explicit" permission.
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