[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Rideshare Access
Simon Poole
simon at poole.ch
Tue Nov 3 12:01:20 UTC 2020
We don't seem to have a tagging currently for dedicated pickup locations
in this kind of context, bus stops etc are naturally taggable), if
considered really useful I don't see why we couldn't introduce a
amenity=...pickup... tag.
Am 31.10.2020 um 23:50 schrieb Brian M. Sperlongano:
> The use of the proposed access tagging on roads to indicate whether or
> not a private hire/rideshare can drive on them I think we can all
> agree is straightforward, but it gets muddy when talking about other
> types of infrastructure that this might apply to.
>
> I would like to better understand how such access tagging would work
> in practice for an example at my local airport. In that instance, the
> designated Uber pickup/dropoff location is a particular spot within a
> specific parking garage (tagged with amenity=parking + building=yes).
> Do I add private_hire=designated to the building? Okay, that can
> work. But then, adding operator=Uber doesn't work -- after all, Uber
> isn't operating the parking garage, they just have permission to make
> pickups at a particular signed location. This tells me that a POI
> that's separate from the parking garage object is needed to indicate
> the precise pickup location within the garage. Are we saying that's
> amenity=taxi + private_hire=designated? That doesn't work because a
> taxi stand implies on-demand transportation. I would just ask that we
> consider the full picture of how designated private hire/rideshare
> tagging should be done at airports and other transportation hubs;
> without that "big picture", merely focusing very narrowly on the
> access attribute feels incomplete.
>
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 4:03 PM Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch
> <mailto:simon at poole.ch>> wrote:
>
> I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding here.
>
> This is not about taxi stands or anything similar, but about
> access for Lyfts, Ubers, Grabs employees to streets and
> infrastructure that they would not be able to utilize if they were
> driving for themselves (including actual ride sharing :-)).
> Example pick up and drop off access at airports and similar, this
> might include access to taxi dedicated infrastructure too. This is
> quite legit and no beef with the companies wanting to be able to
> model this to improve routing for their drivers and customers.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 31.10.2020 um 15:23 schrieb Brian M. Sperlongano:
>> In the United States at least, there is a very real difference in
>> meaning between "rideshare" and "taxi" services when it comes
>> *specifically* to access at airports. And I believe that is the
>> intent of this proposal: how do I tag the special area in the
>> airport where I must go in order to be picked up by XYZ rideshare
>> company?
>>
>> At an airport, if you wish to take a taxi, you walk up to a taxi
>> stand (amenity=taxi), where the taxi cabs line up, and you take
>> the first taxi cab in line. This is an explicit area where only
>> taxis queue up.
>>
>> Alternately, if you wish to take a "ride share", you are using an
>> app to make an arrangement with a specific vehicle and driver to
>> be picked up at a specific location. In this case, airports
>> often (at this point, probably "usually") have a specified
>> location where such ride shares are allowed to pick up and/or
>> drop off passengers.
>>
>> In some cases, the ride share pickup/drop-off locations have
>> specific areas that are different for different ride share
>> providers. For example, at my local airport, due to
>> disagreements about how much these companies should pay the
>> airport for curb access (really), there is one location where you
>> can pick up a Lyft, and a separate location 100 meters away off
>> the airport property where you can pick up an Uber!
>>
>> The point here is that in the US there is a very real distinction
>> between these two classes of objects, and the information someone
>> traveling through the airport looking for ground transportation
>> would want to know is:
>> 1. Is it a ride share (pre-arranged pickup) or taxi stand
>> (on-demand pickup)
>> 2. Is it limited to only specific ride share companies?
>> 3. Is it pickup only, dropoff only, or both?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 6:36 AM Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch
>> <mailto:simon at poole.ch>> wrote:
>>
>> For starters I would oppose using the term "rideshare" for
>> what is a taxi/chauffeur service. It should be noted that
>> there are actual rideshare organisations and services out
>> there, but uber, grab, lyft etc. are not among them, they are
>> simply trying to co-opt a term with positive associations for
>> their operations.
>>
>> Further, real rideshare services don't get special access
>> treatment anywhere I know of, outside of vehicle occupancy
>> regulations, which isn't surprising as real ride sharing
>> simply involves sharing costs and car on a trip that the
>> driver was going to make anyway.
>>
>> If there are actual legal differences between taxi and
>> chauffeur access somewhere, we could use chauffeur or
>> chauffeur-driven as an access tag (better suggestions welcome).
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
> ..............
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