[Tagging] religious bias - Re: Feature Proposal - Voting - (Chapel of rest)
pla16021 at gmail.com
Wed Nov 4 22:27:48 UTC 2020
On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at 20:50, Tom Pfeifer <t.pfeifer at computer.org> wrote:
> I was surprised that this tag is rushed into voting despite the arguments
> against it even here in the tagging list discussions.
The proposal itself contains paragraphs indicating it is a work in progress
rather than a finished proposal. I would have commented but the wiki
is using a black-hole service that has blocked a large chunk of
addresses belonging to my mobile network because some open
proxies were detected. This is not really ideal for a mobile
service where IP addresses are very volatile.
> Let's summarize the criticism first, and look into the alternative
> "mourning room"
Not in current use in British English. And even when it was used, it
generally referred to the room in a house that we now call the
"living room." See
Also not really suited to a large, dedicated building with more than one
for this purpose. It's that "room" bit that is the problem.
* Vollis (the proposer) 18 Sep: ""chapel" will be opposed by some for being
> religiously connotated"
He was correct. But it's rare for a proposal to get unanimous approval.
> * Peter Elderson 21 Sep: "I have heard mourning chapel, mourning room,
> funeral chapel, funeral room.
> Chapel of rest does not seem right to me"
As I understand it, English (British, American or any other variety) is not
Peter's first language.
> * Clifford Snow 24 Sep: "Chapel of Rest" sounds to me more like a
> marketing term not something we should be using in OSM.
What something "sounds like" to an individual is not a strong determinant of
> * Michael Patrick 24 Sep: 'Chapel of Rest' seems to be a dated UK specific
It's what they're known as in my part of the UK. So still contemporary in
parts of the UK.
> ... The euphemistic 'Chapel of Rest' is more generically known as 'Viewing
> /Visitation Service',
"amenity=visitatation_service" makes even less semantic sense than
"amenity=mourning_room." It's not a term I've encountered, anyway.
> * 27 Sep: 'Chapel of Rest' seems to be one of those terms like 'Take the
> goat to the butcher...
That sentence no sense makes.
> * 28 Sep: since OSM is an international project, my practice is to make it
> as easy as possible for non-native English users.
That is why editors have translations of their presets.
> Indeed, the proposed value contains 'chapel' which is biased to christian
It might be used in British English, however that is biased itself for
Christianity as a cultural background.
Congratulations. You have successfully argued that we must change from
using British English to the language of a country which has no
religious cultural background whatsoever. Offhand, I can't think of
such a country but why should that stop us?
"Chapel of rest" is an euphemism that avoids death-related terminology,
> butmight be mistaken for a chapel where somebody could rest along a hiking
> or pilgrim route.
Except that the correct name for such a chapel is "chapel of ease" not
"chapel of rest."
> OSM is a map for the whole world, and it does not improve acceptance when
a bunch of old white males (such as myself) chose a biased term for a
that naturally exists in other cultural/religious contexts as well.
Do other religions have such places? If so, what do they call them? And
can we then abstract a neutral name from that?
> To close with an alternative, "mourning room" would be a neutral
> alternative from my perspective, reflecting the process of mourning which I
> suppose exists in all cultures.
I object to room being applied to a building which may have many such rooms.
I'd have less of a problem with amenity=mourning.
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