[Tagging] Clubhouse vs Community Centre

Tue Apr 6 12:00:37 UTC 2021

This is a good point.

Since tagging the whole of a club’s ground using the club key is currently in use, I have made a suggestion of how to handle this on the proposal page (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/clubhouse#Tagging).

In short, if club=* has been drawn as an area encompassing multiple features/facilities belonging to that club, and the clubhouse is located within this area, then amenity=clubhouse doesn’t need to have the club tag directly associated with it. It is, however, recommended to include the operator=* tag (which, presumably, will be the club in question).

Does this seem reasonable?

From: Brian M. Sperlongano <zelonewolf at gmail.com>
Sent: 03 April 2021 18:26
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Clubhouse vs Community Centre

There is an important distinction that seems to be missed here, as to whether we would tag a club as a whole (the grounds, and multiple features and buildings within it), as separate from a clubhouse, i.e., a specific building operated by the club as a headquarters and gathering place.  This is particularly important in cases where the club is not simply contained in a single building but rather is a small campus.  It does seem weird to me to tag the grounds of a facility as a community center (because we think of community centers as buildings) but the club_home sub-tag seems to work for this purpose.

It seems to me that even if you come up with the perfect tagging for a clubhouse, you should not take away the render-supported tagging currently used for a club's grounds.  So either you need to solve club AND clubhouse tagging simultaneously, or solve just one of them and leave the other alone.

On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 1:08 PM nathan case <nathancase at outlook.com<mailto:nathancase at outlook.com>> wrote:
Agreed with everything Paul says.

Clearly not a community centre, hence my proposal. But sounds like you have done the best you can with the currently documented options.

As for building=clubhouse, yes it’s a tricky one. I’ve suggested deprecating it since, as Paul says, it’s a building use not a type. However, there might be an argument to make that, if the building was built as a clubhouse, for the sole purpose of being a clubhouse, then perhaps it should be building=clubhouse. Not sure though!

From: Paul Allen <pla16021 at gmail.com<mailto:pla16021 at gmail.com>>
Sent: 03 April 2021 17:15
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <tagging at openstreetmap.org<mailto:tagging at openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Clubhouse vs Community Centre

On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 at 16:42, Brian M. Sperlongano <zelonewolf at gmail.com<mailto:zelonewolf at gmail.com>> wrote:
I tried to figure out how to tag a local club that I am familiar with.  It is a Portuguese-American heritage club, and the facility has a building, a soccer field, and a parking lot.  The building contains a restaurant and bar (the restaurant being open to the public only once a week on Friday evenings).  Upstairs in the building is a meeting room / banquet hall.

If it is mostly members-only, or members + guests, that makes it a club.  We
don't (yet) have a good tag for clubs in general (but you have made me aware
that we do already have a good tag for social clubs).

For the overall facility (the grounds) I ended up going with amenity=community_centre + community_centre=club_home.  I would not call this facility a "community center" in local vernacular but the wiki definition seems to fit in with what this is.

I wouldn't call it a community centre in British vernacular, either.

For the building (club house?) I tagged it as building=clubhouse + amenity=social_club.  Though I am told by my British counterparts that it is TOTALLY WRONG to use amenity=social_club outside of the UK...

The wiki says these things are mainly found in the UK and parts of its
former empire.  That doesn't mean they don't exist elsewhere, just that
outside of those geographic bounds what you're mapping may not fit
the definition, so read the definition closely.  In the UK, many of these
have names like British Legion, Fubar Working Men's Club or
Fubb Miner's Welfare, which makes it easier to decide.

but reading the definition it seemed a reasonable fit based on my personal knowledge of the place.

Going by your description, it fits very well.

  There is no wiki page for building=clubhouse (though there are >600 usages), but the combination felt like a cleaner description.

Cue the argument about function vs form.  I tend to go with form.  If it's
recognizable as an X, it's building=x, otherwise building=yes.  Others
say only building=yes is valid.

--
Paul

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