[Tagging] Development of Tag Replacements (was: Feature Proposal - RFC - landuse bush)

[Mateusz Konieczny]

Thanks for this summary!

I would also mention that for different tags different level of
acceptance and coordination is needed.

If tag is unused and noone supports it - barrier is much lower.
If alternative is already supported - barrier is much lower.
If tag is unimportant - barrier is much lower.

But if you want to deprecate something used over 10 000 000 times
and with a massive support everywhere...

> It's not a matter of votes. As you correctly say, this group here
> doesn't decide what OSM does; it doesn't have the mandate for such
> decisions, it cannot force anybody to do anything (and it should not).
>
The same for proposal process at wiki. It may be an argument, 
sufficient in some cases - but vote on wiki, even succesful, is
not enough to deprecate for example landuse=forest.

Discussion on tagging list, OSM Wiki proposal process is not
order/mandate - it is rather suggestion/argument/proposal.

Feb 4, 2021, 11:27 by frederik at remote.org:

> Hi,
>
> On 04.02.21 06:02, Stefan Tauner wrote:
>
>> But let's suppose that we discuss this enough so that we get enough
>> votes together. What then?
>>
>
> It's not a matter of votes. As you correctly say, this group here
> doesn't decide what OSM does; it doesn't have the mandate for such
> decisions, it cannot force anybody to do anything (and it should not).
>
> Like any project of societal change, if we wanted to make wide-ranging
> changes like that, we would first have to build a very convincing cause
> - something that will make the average mapper say "mh, sounds like a
> good idea, it will solve some problems that I have had too".
>
> Then we'd have to devise a technical plan on how the change could be
> implemented with minimal disruption to data consumers. (Personally, in
> the past I've occasionally said "fuck data consumers, let's do what we
> think is right and they have to adapt", and while I still sympathise
> with that mappers-first approach, I now see that OSM itself would suffer
> a lot, starting with every mailing list, support email address, and chat
> being absolutely overflowing with questions of "why has the forest
> suddenly gone in my flight simulator", and then tons of new signups
> "repairing" the map by re-adding old tags so that things work again in
> their setup... hence, ignoring the consumers would come back to haunt us.)
>
> Then when we have the technical plan thought out, we'd have to start
> campaigning, on two levels - one, getting the major software products
> that work with OSM data like the editors, osm-carto etc., to support the
> plan, and two, convincing mappers that the time has come for this great
> new feature which will be available soon. This will require some
> "project management" in the form of someone keeping track of which
> software already supports the new stuff and which still needs to be
> modified. And of course this will require the right combination of
> carrot and stick - if you go to an editor writer and say "you have to do
> this because we decided it" then that's practically a guarantee for them
> to stubbornly ignore the issue and say "fine, then you can decide to
> write an editor that supports it".
>
> So I don't think change on that scale is impossible but it's a big
> project, and it would require someone to commit to that, concentrate on
> that, do a lot of actual work. It is much more than just writing a
> proposal, getting 20 votes on it, and calling for the deprecation of
> something or other. Most people just don't care enough to invest that
> amount of work. Firing off a couple postings about how it would be nice
> to have X is cheap.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> -- 
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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