[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - landuse bush

Thu Feb 4 19:19:46 UTC 2021

If it's clearly one thing, e.g. grass, or scrub, tag it as grass, or scrub.

If half of it is grass, and the other half is bushes and there is a tree,
tag those separately. Same if its more like a thick hedge with some grass
inside.

If it's flowers and grass now, but ground covering bushes may be there next
year (as is normal in my town), or if it clearly doesn't matter, because it
just covers a patch of useless (sorry, I mean decoratively filled) land,
tag greenery.

If it's not clearly one thing or if it doesn't really matter, it's
greenery.

The middle circle of a roundabout is often covered with greenery.

Vr gr Peter Elderson

Op do 4 feb. 2021 om 19:57 schreef Vincent van Duijnhoven via Tagging <
tagging at openstreetmap.org>:

> The only thing with greenery I can think of is some potential overlap
> between landuse=greenery with landuse=grass | flowerbed and potentially
> also leisure=park and leisure=garden. In other words, greenery might be too
> vague for some people to be clearly distinguished from the mentioned tags
> based on the value only.
>
> If natural=greenery is used, the same applies to the above imo. greenery
> might be too vague to be distinguished from other natural values.
>
> Regards,
> Vincent
>
> 4 feb. 2021 18:41 van pelderson at gmail.com:
>
> Then I'll stick to duck tagging:
> landcover=greenery
>
> Second place:
> natural=greenery
>
> Where natural means: it's a naturally growing or flowing element, even
> though it's planted and maintained by humans.
>
> Fr gr Peter Elderson
>
>
> Op do 4 feb. 2021 om 18:33 schreef Brian M. Sperlongano <
> zelonewolf at gmail.com>:
>
> Yes, "greenery" would also be a fitting description for these areas, and
> it is also familiar terminology in the US.
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 12:27 PM Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I think that's asking for mistagging. I can't see innocent mappers tagging
> seasonal flowerbeds, grass, and mixed grass, low trees and bushes as
> shrubbery.
>
> In Nederland, this is called "groen", i.e. "green stuff". The most common
> urban variant is "gemeentegroen", i.e. municipal green stuff, because it's
> often maintained by a municipal service. In a previous iteration of this
> discussion I was told that "greenery" was a correct term for this, leaving
> out who owns or maintains the stuff. It's just what you see.
>
> Vr gr Peter Elderson
>
>
> Op do 4 feb. 2021 om 18:10 schreef Brian M. Sperlongano <
> zelonewolf at gmail.com>:
>
> The potential pitfall with shrub/shrubbery is that these (sorry)
> landscaped areas very frequently have combinations of shrubs/bushes, leafy
> ground cover plants, ornamental trees, ornamental grasses, and flowers.
> So, if we are okay with handwaving all of these different categories away
> and saying that shrub/shrubbery (or whatever the tag gets called) also
> covers these areas of mixed landscaping that aren't exclusively a flowerbed
> but also aren't strictly just shrubbery, then I can live with that as long
> as this usage is carefully described to have that broad definition.
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:48 AM Joseph Eisenberg <
> joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This use of “landscaping” is mostly US English and may not be understood
> in most of the world, where British English is standard.
>
> It also lacks precision. Is a decorative garden “landscaping?” How about a
> vegetable garden? Just and area of grass?
>
> We currently have tags for leisure=garden and landuse=grass and
> landuse=flowerbed, so I recommend focusing on what is missing: a tag for an
> area of cultivated decorative shrubs (aka bushes), which is not a hedge.
>
> The term “shrubs” as the tag value will be the clearest option for
> International users, since “bush” has very different meanings in Australia,
> Africa etc.
>
> — Joseph Eisenberg
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 8:37 AM Brian M. Sperlongano <zelonewolf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> This might be a language difference, but in US English "landscaping" is
> also used as a noun to describe an area of human-created plants or other
> natural objects that are groomed for aesthetic or decorative purposes.  It
> includes lawns, cultivated beds of bushes and shrubs,  etc.
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 11:30 AM Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think landscaping is an activity, a craft or an art maybe. Not a kind of
> object or covering. I think it is better to map what you see and can be
> clearly verified by anyone looking at it, not what you know or suspect has
> happened to make it look like that.
>
> Peter Elderson
>
>
> Op do 4 feb. 2021 om 13:42 schreef Vincent van Duijnhoven via Tagging <
> tagging at openstreetmap.org>:
>
> From all discussion, I get the feeling that both a new landuse or natural
> value are not going to succeed because it is controversial to add a new
> value. Some will, I think correct, oppose because it would fragment the
> vegetation tagging even further
>
> I had a discussion with ZeLonewolf on Discord. Would there be support for
> a tag like landscaping=*? Possible values could be shrubbery | grass |
> trees/forest | flowerbed etc. For example on the following image:
> https://i.imgur.com/w4gAW6D.png 1 would be tagged as natural=wood ( leave
> the discussion about how to tag the forest for now), 2 as
> landscaping=grass, and 3 as natural=tree. If 2 would have been low
> shrubbery for decoration, landscaping=shrubbery would be sufficient.
>
> This tagging scheme would still honor for example natural=scrub from
> scrublands and natural=shrub from individual shrubs. Also, the landuse tag
> would be left untouched and still available to only tag real landuse (like
> residential and industrial).
>
> Additionally, landscaping=* would allow to also properly tag the content
> of a leisure=garden and leisure=park in more detail.
>
> Is this a workable solution?
>
> Kind regards,
> Vincent
>
>
>
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