[Tagging] Draft proposal for historic cemetery

[Daniel Capilla]

Hello to all.

I also think it is important to map what is inside the cemetery, not 
just the cemetery itself (the site). If the proposal is approved, I plan 
to write an entry in my OSM diary explaining why I have decided to make 
this proposal. I visited a historic cemetery in my locality and was 
mapping some historic graves, cenotaphs, memorials, columbaria... There 
is a lot of local history in a historic cemetery.

Many historic cemeteries are included in a list of authorised heritage 
registrers. Where I live, a medium-sized city in Spain, there are two 
historic cemeteries and both are registered by a competent heritage 
authority, one national and one regional. However, in OSM this 
requirement is not mandatory for mapping a historic feature, so I have 
left the question open and referred to what the wiki explains about it.

Establishing the requirements for mapping a historic feature in OSM goes 
beyond this proposal (and beyond my possibilities). This proposal has a 
very limited scope in reality. I have modified the draft to make it 
clearer. Any suggestions for improvement are welcome.

In a few days I hope to send the RFC. Thank you for your cooperation and 
comments.

Regards,

Daniel



El 10/2/21 a las 23:50, Martin Koppenhoefer escribió:
> Am Mi., 10. Feb. 2021 um 00:10 Uhr schrieb Diego Cruz 
> <ginkarasu at gmail.com <mailto:ginkarasu at gmail.com>>:
>
>     Local users can easily verify if a cemetery is historic or not.
>     This is partly subjective, but you need to trust local users'
>     common sense, as in any other tag.
>
>
>
>
>     Is there a series of Baroque tombs? It's historic.
>
>
>
> so it is about age? When you say "baroque", do you mean from the 
> 17th/18th century, or would late 18th, 19th and 20th century "baroque" 
> also qualify? The monumental cemetery of Verano (Rome) would probably 
> qualify, although it was opened only in 1812 (while the baroque period 
> ended around 1740) and most (?) of it is from the 20th century: 
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Cimitero_del_Verano 
> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Cimitero_del_Verano> (on 
> the other hand, maybe this does not qualify, because there is also a 
> very old christian place of worship, Saint Lawrence outside the Walls, 
> from the 4th century AD, which is even a Papal Basilica, and the 
> proposal says: "Its scope of application is limited to cemeteries in 
> the sense in which they are understood in OpenStreetMap: «places 
> usually independent of place of worship» and «not close to a place of 
> worship»"?)
>
> I guess even younger cemeteries would qualify to be "historic", for 
> example world war I cemeteries like Douaumont? 
> https://www.verdun-douaumont.com/en/ 
> <https://www.verdun-douaumont.com/en/>
> This seems an easy case, because it is also a kind of 
> historic=monument for the Verdun battle.
>
> Also this is probably a no-brainer, although people are now living 
> there (it is much older than baroque): 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_the_Dead_(Cairo) 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_the_Dead_(Cairo)>
>
> Generally, I see a lot of overlap with archaeological site for many 
> historic burial places. All of them which are older than a few hundred 
> years will probably also qualify for archaelogical site, and there are 
> also already site types established for it:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:site_type 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:site_type> in particular: 
> necropolis
>
> Would the Gizeh site qualify for historic=cemetery? A massgrave from 
> the Bosnian war?
>
>     Is it the last remaining Jewish cemetery of a region? It's historic.
>
>
>
> I find it a bit difficult to make a qualitative assessment based on 
> how rare something is. If locally there are many old jewish 
> cemeteries, they would not qualify, but if there is only one left, it 
> would? I am not very familiar with jewish tradition but I thought to 
> remember that their deads rest "forever" (or until salvation by the 
> Messiah) in their burial places, so the cemetery would remain forever 
> a cemetery, even if there are no new burials, not?
>
>     Is Chopin buried there? It's historic.
>
>
>
> burial places of famous people are likely noteworthy, but I am not 
> sure the whole cemetery becomes historic because Chopin is buried 
> there - or Jim Morrison. (on a sidenote, no doubt that Père Lachaise 
> is a historic cemetery).
>
> Not that I could not agree that many cemeteries, or even most, 
> according to the area you look at, are of historic value. It's almost 
> implicit, especially for every cemetery older than a few decades and 
> of significant size. Everybody dies, also famous people, and rich 
> people who can afford to engage notable artists for the funeral 
> monument, so it seems logical that any cemetery in a bigger city will 
> have some famous people buried there.
>
> My recommendation would be to focus on mapping the things that make 
> the cemetery "historic", both in terms of components (tombs etc.) but 
> also regarding the attributes of the whole site. E.g. for the age, 
> when it is known, I would recommend to add explicit reference to the 
> start_date, it is a datum that already tells more than any 
> historic=yes or cemetery qualifiers. If it is unknown, you could still 
> add a rough timespan. Additionally to a start date, it would be 
> interesting to have the "main period", because it may well be the case 
> that the cemetery was used for hundreds or even thousands of years, 
> but most of the current tombs are from a much later time.
>
> Cheers
> Martin
>
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