[Tagging] Deprecation - waterway=riverbank vs water=river

[mail at marcos-martinez.net]

I fear the debate is slightly derailing and although I am not completely
happy with Manday's tone either I agree with his message. We are trying
to have a constructive debate and if arguments need to be repeated - so
be it. People involved in OSM change and not everybody, new or not,
should be requested to study our complete debate history before starting
a thread, neither having to accept advice written in this tone from an
apparently "higher" place. I am sure real newbies reading this kind of
mail are completely repelled. 

I kindly suggest to either contribute with arguments, even though
repeated, or references to other debates with the clear goal to find a
solution because the thread is aiming to exactly that: Avoid having a
duplication of tags describing the exact same thing. 

Cheers, Marcos 

Am 11.02.2021 15:39, schrieb manday at openmail.cc:

> Instead of "wasting communication bandwidth for everyone" with a lot  of unsolicited advice about attitudes and whatnot, you could have  elaborated those arguments which you said were not presented, or at  least point to a reference.
> 
> It may surprise you, but I did actually not start this thread for my  personal benefit (crazy, I know!), but rather because it was suggested  that I present my opinion (you call this "made up my mind of what the  discussion should be") here for discussion.
> 
> Have a good day.
> 
> And next time you want to speak in this tone, please write off-list,  as it would be proper etiquette.
> 
> Quoting Christoph Hormann <osm at imagico.de>:
> 
> On Thursday 11 February 2021, manday at openmail.cc wrote: [...]
> 
> I would like to point out that no argument other than the ~100k
> difference for removing `water=river` in favor of `riverbank` has
> been presented. [...] 
> I have no interest in engaging in this discussion which is a reiteration
> of a discussion we have already had countless times on this list and
> elsewhere.  But since you seem to be new here (and probably new to OSM
> in general) a little piece of advice:
> 
> Do not conclude from the fact that people do not engage in a discussion
> with you that there are no arguments against your views of things.
> That people do not present you arguments only means that they don't
> think presenting them would have any benefit.  As Frederik recently
> mentioned repeating the same points over and over again just wastes
> communication bandwidth for everyone.  Not to mention this English
> language mailing list is only a small and highly selective cutout from
> the global OSM community.
> 
> Why it is a good idea to make the distinction between standing inland
> waterbodies and flowing inland water as a distinction in primary
> tagging has been explained many times over the years.  You either
> 
> * know this and accept this being a valid reason for a distinction in
> primary tagging between lakes and riverbank polygons.
> * know this and reject the relevancy of this distinction.  Then
> repeating that point again will not make a difference.
> * don't know this (because you are new to OSM or to the topic of
> waterbody mapping and tagging).  Then you should not start off a
> discussion clearly stating you have already made up your mind what the
> results of the discussion should be.  Instead the prudent thing to do
> is asking - with an open mind - why people prefer tagging riverbank
> polygons with waterway=riverbank or natural=water respectively.  Then
> you would probably have received an explanation for both sides.  And
> even if you did not it would still be prudent (and also advisable under
> the principle of "assume good faith") to assume that those who prefer
> waterway=riverbank (as evidenced by its ongoing use) have a good reason
> for that.

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