[Tagging] schoolstraat / rue scolaire
joost.schouppe at gmail.com
Fri May 28 07:55:22 UTC 2021
Yes, conditional restrictions are the main way to tag this. But indeed,
it's hard to do QA, especially since there are different styles to map
this. Also, we've got the impression that people skip mapping this as they
don't know about conditional restrictions. And also, there are a bunch of
minor effects of the traffic sign that we don't even all agree on yet.
Thanks for the Italian case! It is similar but different. It seems that the
Italian version just offers a concept, where the exact rules in place are
decided at the municipal level. I think the Belgian law tries to avoid
exactly that - the concept surged, was locally implemented in different
ways, and only then put into national law.
It is unfortunate that only the UK values for designation=* are documented
on the main wiki. That makes it hard to see what exactly is meant with many
of the tags. Still, the philosophy of the tag seems to be to have an
additional value on top of explicit tagging. So it is not exactly needed to
have an automatic, globally applicable definition of the value. It is also
very rare at this moment to add a country clarification; though the values
are often in the local language (!). Anyway, in most cases, you can't just
look at the value and know. Even the UK specefic values are used in other
countries sporadically, so you'd need to throw them out anyway.
I think it might be more useful to have concepts that are re-usable accross
the globe (like school_street), where you have to look at local legislation
to know the exact implications. This would help with adoption of the tag,
and allow for much easier enrichment of the data later.
OTOH, I do like your suggestion to say that both in Holland and Belgium a
cyclestreet is cyclestreet=yes , but only in Belgium does it also need
In Belgium the sign explicitly has the word "schoolstraat", and that
magically adds more implications. In the Austrian case, it seems there are
absolutely no other implications than exactly what is on the traffic sign?
In this case, i'd be tempted to say this is NOT a designated school_street.
One could still recognize this "type" of street (if you can consider it
one) by an exception for school holidays in the "opening hours" of the
road. And again, an extra tag to identify them more easily could still be
As Mateusz pointed out, this is indeed exactly how we tag this, for example
see https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/23147757#map=19/50.72889/4.24535 .
This is a "simple" application of the conditional restrictions logic. My
suggested designation value is mostly meant for the convenience of mappers.
For a data user, of course, the presence of designation=school_street
WITHOUT this kind of tag could be roughgly interpreted to avoid going there
at times when this might pose issues. Or just in general give them a lower
Thanks for the feedback; looking forward to more. As usual, it has left me
with more doubts than before :)
I now see these options:
- add nothing explicitly
- add designation=school_street or designation=BE:school_street
- add school_street=yes only
- add both school_street and one of the two suggested values
I tend towards the last option at this moment, as this one is the most
likely to be applicable worldwide. If need be, a designation value can then
be added, depending on local legislation.
Op vr 28 mei 2021 om 07:23 schreef Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging at openstreetmap.org>:
> "We could reuse the opening hours syntax for it"
> This is a solved problem, see
> Though rules may be obnoxiously complex.
> May 28, 2021, 07:06 by Sebastianmartindicke at gmx.de:
> It would be helpful for human users to tag it with such a restriction
> like school_hours. But for routers it is not very helpful. Routers would
> need more information, the actual school hours. One source could be OSM.
> The school hours could be tagged in a relation between the school and
> the street ways affected. We could reuse the opening hours syntax for
> it. An alternative would be an external database holding school hours
> information for schools at least in one country. I do not know if there
> any. The same difficulty exists for restrictions regarding weekly markets.
> On 27.05.21 19:21, Stefan Tauner wrote:
> On Thu, 27 May 2021 16:09:23 +0200
> Jeroen Hoek <mail at jeroenhoek.nl> wrote:
> Because the designation is specific to Belgium, and that it is unlikely
> that a similar concept in other countries would match the same
> description and legal implications
> Is that really the case though? What is so special about schoolstraats
> Apart from the Italian example I am only familiar with what is done
> here in Austria, which can more easily/precisely be specified by
> conditions since the restrictions are limited to relatively small time
> slots at the start and end of school attendance which are clearly
> stated on the respective signs on the street. The initial description
> very much reads like "motor_vehicle=no @ school hours" basically.
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