[Tagging] Flat area in the mountains

[Sebastian Gürtler]

Am 24.04.22 um 23:30 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> Am So., 24. Apr. 2022 um 20:33 Uhr schrieb Sebastian Gürtler
> <sebastian.guertler at gmx.de>:
>
>     I just looked in taginfo about natural=flat. This has someone used for
>     very big areas in Slovakia
>     (https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1934540,
>     https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1934514). The occurance is
>     quite
>     rare, but generally you may expect discussions with people who already
>     have used a tag in another sense.
>
>
>
> these 2 seem to be the outliers with respect to the rest. There are
> also 2 ways with the tag, and they might eventually be similar
> features as the question:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/229942290
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/229942297
>
> and few nodes e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3164155351
>
> natural=flat could be a candidate
>
> Cheers,
> Martin

The last three examples are mapped by
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/nmixter and have had no further
changes. What about contacting nmixter about his use and opinion about a
definition of the tag natural=flat and discussing with him whether this
could be the same thing.

I think that the 2 slovak examples could better be seen as a plain even
in spite of the fact that the usual translation into English seems to be
flat in this case. In German there is the word "Ebene" which would be
usually translated as plain. Usually they are just flat - also outside
of mountain areas - but much bigger than the formations that are here
called "flat" (like in the en.wikipedia "Flat (landform)".

Problem may be that in slovak obviously there are two terms: you have
"rovina" that was translated and tagged as natural=flat and "nížina" (in
"Podunajská nížina" https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/11950614)
that was translated and tagged as natural=plain. The thing gets more
complicated as you find in Wikipedia Podunajská nížina (links to German
"Donau-Tiefland", English "Danubian Lowland"), and Podunajská rovina
(links to German "Donau-Ebene", English "Danubian Flat") the latter is a
part of the former, the other part is the Podunajská pahorkatina (links
to German "Donau-Hügelland", English "Danubian Hills", "also D.
Upland"). So you have a "natural=plain" that is translated in English as
"Lowland" that includes an area of "Hills"...

Maybe can also find the initial mapper who decided in Slovakia for
"plain" and "flat" and discuss it as well.

I think there are always (at least) 2 possibilities in osm in these
cases: 1) you have different regions with different taggings 2) you try
to internationalize definitions (and you have to let go the idea that
the tags would still pass as translations of a term everywhere; the
words get osm-specific meanings). It depends also on the intended use of
the data.

Have a good night in the CEST-area and nearby...

Sebastian


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