[Tagging] River crossing grade

Thu Jan 27 16:11:12 UTC 2022

Several definitions of the English word "ford":
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ford
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ford
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/ford

Several mention "wading".  One mentions "not using a boat".  None mention
stepping over, jumping over, stepping stones, or dry streambeds.  Yes OSM
tags do diverge from English word meanings, but if we can avoid it wouldn't
that be preferable?  ford=stepping_stones has around 8000 uses and
thankfully ford=boat has only around 50.  Doesn't seem too late to change
these.
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/ford#values

My suggestion would be to introduce a new tag *water_crossing=yes* for a
generic water crossing.  This could be used for any water crossing where
the mapper does not know if it is a ford, a usually dry streambed, small
enough to step across on stones, or some other kind of crossing.  This key
could then have more specific values to add more detail:

water_crossing=ford
water_crossing=stepping_stones
water_crossing=step_over
water_crossing=dry
water_crossing=boat

Since ford=yes has been (mis)used so heavily to mean any generic water
crossing, we can say that ford=yes has the same meaning as
water_crossing=yes.  Perhaps even with this more detailed scheme there is
still some desire to tag how wet you would get at a water_crossing=ford,
but it would be limited to crossings where you *are* going to get wet.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 10:42 AM Sinus Pi <sinus+osmtag at sinpi.net> wrote:

> > Stepping stones are not a bridge
>
> So when does a structure built to facilitate dry-foot crossing become a
> bridge? I'm sure you'll agree that a plank thrown over a stream is a
> bridge. A handful of sticks and logs thrown into the stream, like a beaver
> dam, surely comprises a makeshift bridge, does it not?
>
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 at 16:29, Philip Barnes <phil at trigpoint.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, 27 January 2022, Sinus Pi wrote:
>> > How about a different approach to the stepping stones...
>> >
>> > What do you call a (usually, but not always) man-made structure that
>> allows
>> > you to cross a waterway dry-footed? A bridge.
>> > Is a plank thrown over a stream a bridge? Likely.
>> > Is a log fallen over the river, now commonly used as a crossing, a
>> bridge?
>> > Kind of.
>> > Is a stone chucked into the river a bridge? Well... why not?
>> >
>> > Hence: why not bridge=stepping_stones?
>> > And leave ford=* for where the waterway cannot (usually) be crossed
>> without
>> > getting your feet wet?
>>
>> Stepping stones are not a bridge, any more than they are a ford, although
>> that has been in use a long time.
>>
>> Why not highway=stepping stones, in the same way we have highway=steps.
>>
>> Both can only exist on a foot only way.
>>
>> In the case of stepping stones, they are often alongside an actual ford
>> for example https://www.geograph.org/photo/14321
>>
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 at 14:43, Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I don't see much added value in this proposal.
>> > > Boat is not applicable (not a ford), use ferry for that: established
>> > > tagging.
>> > > Swimming, not a ford.
>> > > Stepping stones, I think then it's still a ford; established tagging.
>> > > Add depth, width as needed. An estimate will suffice. Dry=0 cm,
>> soles=5
>> > > cm, ankle=10 cm, knee=0,5 m, wade=1 m.
>> > > Intermittent, tidal: there is tagging for that.
>> > > Construction key could help if you want to tag an artificial ford.
>> > >
>> > > Peter Elderson
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Op wo 26 jan. 2022 om 11:59 schreef Andrew Harvey <
>> > > andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>:
>> > >
>> > >> I couldn't see anything on the wiki about river crossings grade so I
>> > >> started drafting a proposal
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pedestrian_river_crossing
>> > >>
>> > >> Feedback or comments or help on it is most welcome.
>> > >>
>> > >> # Rational
>> > >>
>> > >> Particularly on hiking trails, the intersection of a highway=footway
>> or
>> > >> highway=path and a waterway=* can be defined as either:
>> > >>
>> > >> - A bridge bridge=yes which allows you to walk over the watercourse.
>> > >> - A culvert tunnel=culvert which takes the water through a tunnel
>> > >> underneath the walking path.
>> > >> - Stepping stones ford=stepping_stones which allow you to walk
>> through
>> > >> the watercourse without usually getting wet (unless the water level
>> is
>> > >> higher than the stepping stones, this tag doesn't imply you'll
>> always be
>> > >> able to get across)
>> > >> - A generic stream/river crossing ford=yes where your path passes
>> through
>> > >> the watercourse.
>> > >> In the last case of ford=yes it can be helpful to describe the usual
>> > >> condition of that stream/river crossing to help give consumers an
>> idea of
>> > >> what they can generally expect.
>> > >>
>> > >> Mindful that conditions can change depending on upstream rainfall,
>> or it
>> > >> could vary seasonally, but for places where it's usually consistent,
>> this
>> > >> proposal proposes tagging it.
>> > >>
>> > >> # Proposed Tagging
>> > >>
>> > >> 0. creek/stream crossing where generally the creekbed is dry and you
>> > >> won't get wet.
>> > >> 1: creek/stream crossing where generally the water level is so low
>> that
>> > >> you won't have water ingress in your shoes
>> > >> 2: creek/stream crossing where your body will stay dry but you'll
>> want to
>> > >> take your shoes off if you prefer to keep them dry
>> > >> 3: river crossing where your body will get wet, may have a rope to
>> help
>> > >> you cross, but you can wade through the water and won't usually need
>> to swim
>> > >> 4: river crossing where you'll need to swim across
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
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>> > >> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
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>> > >>
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>> > >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Sailfish device
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