[talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 39, Issue 18

Tue Sep 21 17:32:05 BST 2010

Re: Tags for bike-friendly streets.

Thanks for your input. We're going to go with Richard's suggestion to
stick with the verifiable tags like maxspeed and traffic:hourly. We
would also support the use of the proposed shoulder tag
(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shoulder), but obviously that
hasn't been approved by the community so if you'd like to hold off on
applying it, that's fine.

Here's the temporary URL for the Brisbane project, in case you want to
spread the word to get OSM bicyclists improving the data:
http://www.ridethecity.com/?region=brisbane

We're in the process of making some of these changes ourselves and
would welcome any and all assistance! Useful corrections would be:
- adding or correcting street and track/cycleway names
- adding bike facilities where needed/missing
- correcting highway types e.g. residential vs. primary, secondary, etc.
- specifying incline=* e.g. incline=9% or incline=-9% where there are
steep hills
- ensuring nodes connect highways to cycleways in the right places
(and that nodes don't exist where connections should not exist)
- correctly tagging highways and tracks with bicycle=no where bikes
aren't allowed (and where it's not obvious).

Our routing system does not refresh from OSM immediately. Initially
we'll refresh every few days and as it becomes more stable, we'll
probably refresh once a week.

Thanks,
Vaidila & Jordan

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 7:00 AM, <talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Tags for bicycle friendly streets (Ride the City -
>      Brisbane) (Emilie Laffray)
>   2. Re: Tags for bicycle friendly streets (Ride the City -
>      Brisbane) (Richard Fairhurst)
>   3. Re: Tags for bicycle friendly streets (Ride the City -
>      Brisbane) (Ben Kelley)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:59:00 +0100
> From: Emilie Laffray <emilie.laffray at gmail.com>
> To: Lachlan Rogers <lachlan at rogers.name>
> Cc: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Tags for bicycle friendly streets (Ride the
>        City -  Brisbane)
> Message-ID:
>        <AANLkTinxO0LjYD59cQJEbi_XD2Oi8NzPFsyYnzZHXDbo at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On 20 September 2010 11:39, Lachlan Rogers <lachlan at rogers.name> wrote:
>
> >
> > I've seen a few similar proposals come and go. Where did
> >> "cyclerating=*" come from - did you just invent it? It would be much
> >> better to combine forces with at least one existing proposal if
> >> possible...
> >>
> >
> > The idea would be a good one in Canberra.  I'd be happy to use the
> proposed
> > "cyclerating" tag, but would also be interested in reading about some of
> the
> > other proposals.  Where can I find them?
> >
>
> I would suggest talking about it internationally as one website
> www.geovelo.fr is already using some similar concepts through not tagging.
> I
> am sure they would be happy to have a coherent proposal put into place.
> Just
> be aware that you will probably run into some discussion on tagging about
> the relativeness of that kind of tagging i.e. like the smoothness debate.
> It is likely to be a highly contentious proposal idea.
>
> Emilie Laffray
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 05:31:18 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Richard Fairhurst <richard at systemed.net>
> To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Tags for bicycle friendly streets (Ride the
>        City -  Brisbane)
> Message-ID: <1284985878337-5550245.post at n2.nabble.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
> Vaidila Kungys wrote:
> > We would like to ask you to tag any street with the following ratings
> > so that we have more information for better routing. These ratings
> > should be based upon your preference and experience of the streets:
>
> Please please please please don't do this.
>
> OSM tags are meant to be impartial and verifiable. Subjective ratings don't
> work: a "1" for a hardened city commuter ("hey, this street?lets me get to
> work faster, and there are no awkward cycle facilities to negotiate") might
> be a "5" for a novice cyclist.
>
> As an example, I'm an area ranger for the National Cycle Network over here
> in Oxfordshire (UK) and we maintain a lovely set of leisure routes. I'd
> definitely rate them as 1. But if you search any UK cycling forum (for
> example, yacf.co.uk or the uk.rec.cycling newsgroup) you'll find a hard
> core
> of committed cyclists who feel that many NCN routes can be inconvenient and
> badly designed, and would rate them at 4 or 5. And so on. We've had this
> debate several times beforehand -
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Cycleworth is
> one
> example.
>
> You can, of course, create a 'mashup' by using OSM data as a base, and
> designing a website (or printed map) that superimposes your own subjective
> rankings on top. That's one way to go.
>
> The other (and best) way is to tag the individual factors within OSM which
> make a good route: surface, traffic levels, incidence of annoying traffic
> lights, etc. etc. Your routing or rendering setup can then juggle these to
> get an estimate of what's "cycle-friendly" according to your own preferred
> metrics. Traffic levels are hard to tag accurately, but in OSM, we iterate
> towards accuracy: so you could make an estimate (based on counting traffic
> in the other direction as you cycle along a road) of, say, 1000 vehicles
> per
> hour, and when someone comes up with a better methodology they'll correct
> it.
>
> cc:ed to the international tagging list.
>
> cheers
> Richard
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Tags-for-bicycle-friendly-streets-Ride-the-City-Brisbane-tp5528579p5550245.html
> Sent from the Australia mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 06:45:43 +1000
> From: Ben Kelley <ben.kelley at gmail.com>
> To: OSM Australian Talk List <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Tags for bicycle friendly streets (Ride the
>        City -  Brisbane)
> Message-ID:
>        <AANLkTikrgEYYYrcWufspLYcqa_mAupZi4uitRLtv1avX at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi.
>
> I don't know about other places in Australia, but for Sydney we are doing
> well simply to have marked cycle routes mapped at all.
>
> I thought the rating system was only proposed. Is it actually used for
> anything? i.e. Is there any routing system that uses it?
>
>  - Ben Kelley.
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