[talk-au] Fw: ATTN Steve Coast <steve at asklater.com> RE" Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes

Fri Jul 8 13:02:56 BST 2011

Oops!!! I didnt realise Steve posted this from his own address and copied talk-au at openstreetmap.org in to the email. so when I replied it appears that it  only went to steve at asklater.com... This  corrects that. Wouldn't  want to be accused by someone of having private conversations!!!

Paul (The one and only of me!!!)

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: All Blokes <speed_13100 at yahoo.com.au>
To: SteveC <steve at asklater.com>
Sent: Friday, 8 July 2011 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [talk-au] ATTN Steve Coast <steve at asklater.com> RE" Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes

There you go again Steve.... putting words into some one else's mouth.... 
this time you are accusing ME of saying things that I did not say. 

For a start .... I did not say... (explicitly or otherwise), I am not prepared to change my mind.
I said "I don't want to have my mind changed. I've made it myself and if I change it I will do that myself too." 

But 
this appears to me to be how a lot of this debate is being run from your side ...take something that is said and instead of answering the main 
point attack a side issue ...and as in this case, if there isn't one, 
make one. 

Vitriol!!!? 

I may not be much of an orator but I can use a dictionary....
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vitriol 

tells me Vitriol is  ...
1.     another name for sulphuric acid
2.     any one of a number of sulphate salts, such as ferrous sulphate ( green vitriol ), copper sulphate ( blue vitriol ), or zinc sulphate ( white vitriol )
3.     speech, writing, etc, displaying rancour, vituperation, or bitterness 
— vb  , -ols , -oling , -oled , -olling , -olled
4.     to attack or injure with or as if with vitriol
5.     to treat with vitriol 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are only accusing my email as containing Vitriol in the meaning of 3. above.
If you think that email was displaying Rancour vituperation or bitterness... I can tell you what you
 would have said to you if you did come to Australia. There would be suggestion made to you that you should start to put a teaspoon of cement powder in to your morning porridge  to try to help you to harden up!!! 

 I would really like to have you reply to me and copy passages that I said that display vitriol ... so that others who are reading tese posts can see and make a judgement based on facts as to what language I used that was displaying rancour, vituperation, or bitterness... unless I have made a wrong assumption and instead you saying that my email contained language that attacked you or injured you with sulphuric acid or that I treated you with sulphuric acid.

Im very happy to prove my email account is not a puppet email account or that I am not John smith, Anthony or  a friend of them. I have had an email discussion with John Smith/
It consisted of four emails and the last one was sent by me on 19 May 2011 at
 00:50 (Australian time... sorry if that inconvenienced you, but it suited me to send it at the time and I was unaware that the time of postings was such an issue to you)

I could show you the emails, but frankly, I don't believe it is any of your business who I talk to or why, anyway.

I am prepared to prove my bonafides to you on two conditions 

1 That you don't share any of my personal details that I give to you with anyone else without my permission and 
2  When I do that (prove my bonafides you then post clearly on here that you were wrong in you assertions that were against my character and in fact  belittled me and my opinion by implying that I am not a real person or not who I purport to be.

 If you agree to those conditions, here in this forum I will then send to your @asklater email address   my Name, mobile phone number, a  photograph of me holding a note to you ....would that do? 

There you go Steve, I'm calling your bluff. 
Are you game to take me up on it or will you use some sort of weasel excuse to get out of it. 
You made the assertion here I am going to put it to bed one way or another.
 I can assure you, I'm sitting here in Tropical Queensland. 
We are not used to the cold so I am in my beanie and a jumper because it is about 5 degs C outside and tipped to go to -1C tonight. It will be one of our coldest nights of the year. I don't exactly look very attractive but I am me. 

Paul

________________________________
From: SteveC <steve at asklater.com>
To: All Blokes <speed_13100 at yahoo.com.au>
Cc: "talk-au at openstreetmap.org" <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
Sent: Friday, 8 July 2011 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [talk-au] ATTN Steve Coast <steve at asklater.com> RE" Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes

Don't know how I can reply to someone who explicitly declares they don't want to change their mind or debate.

In amongst the vitriol is perhaps a nugget that's worth responding to, this idea that somehow everyone on talk-au is 80n's puppet, is of course absurd.

Unless you prove this isn't just another puppet email account however, I have no reason to believe "all blokes" isn't just yet another email address for John smith, Anthony or friends are hiding behind.

Steve

stevecoast.com

On Jul 8, 2011, at 0:51, All Blokes <speed_13100 at yahoo.com.au> wrote:

I have not had very much to say on this but I have been reading the posts fairly closely.
>I would not in any way presume to speak for any other Australians other than myself, but I object most strenuously to the implication that I have in some way been "perverted by 80n or any other person at all. when I first heard of the licence change and how it was being done I didnt like it .... I had not even read a post against it at that stage.... and I didn't post one either . I make my own mind up. 
>
>I'm just a dumb busted a*se bulldozer driver so Im sure you would be able to out debate me on this steve but mate winning the debate does not mean that you are right. 
>
>I'm not entering into a debate about the pros and cons of this licence against that licence. I don't want to have my mind changed. I've made it myself and if I change it I will do that myself too. I have not signed up for any other mapping group yet. Time is an issue for me at the moment and I figure I can wait and see what happens anyway. I'm sad to see that OSM has become what it is but I am not interested in being involved with the organisation as it currently is.
>
>
>I have not talked to anyone on the phone or in the pub about OSM or FOSM
>I think your time zone differences excuse is rubbish frankly. 
>
>I think your threat to "come out to Australia and debate this in the pub with 80n as if that would sway people frankly is pretentious.... like you think a lot of people care so much about your point of view to come??? Come on .... just pinch yourself as you read that, Steve so that you have a reality check.....   You definitely have your best Australian audience right now. If you care to come out you will be welcome but if you want to debate 80n this forum is your best chance and It does not appear, to me FWITW that you are doing so well at making your points against him. 
> Like I said I'm not some great orator and I'm not even very experienced about OSM  but I don't like the way it has been taken or where it has gone to. 
>
>Regards,
>Paul.
>"You've been very successful at perverting certain sections of the 
>community, Australia being a good example as the checks and balances of 
>normal community communication are harder because of the timezone 
>differences and costs of flying. Essentially, people in Australia don't 
>get to hear from the rest of us on the phone or in the pub and we let 
>you spam the lists for a long time. So to an outsider it can look like 
>you're this rational guy who used to be on the board and so on. I've 
>heard about the various conspiracy theories
 you've been peddling 
>personally off-list too."
>
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