[talk-au] Going separate ways

[John Smith]

On 11 July 2011 11:55, Steve Coast <steve at asklater.com> wrote:
> We looked around for all the people claiming that we've been ignoring them and can't actually find any posts by them on the legal lists or to the LWG for many of the people involved. Of course, with so many fake names being used it's hard to be sure they weren't raised under a different pseudonym. From what I've seen, the LWG took all of the concerns very seriously and spent an awful lot of time, on an individual basis, trying to resolve them. Nearmap of course being a good example.

Nearmap is about the only example I can think of that was actually
even attempted to be addressed, everyone else just got told to pester
what ever government department to relicense under odbl, but even if
we had that wouldn't have been compatible with the CTs.

What difference does it make who the concerns come from if they are
valid, this is your posts the other day all over again, you find
something difficult to answer so you try to find ways to weasel out of
answering them, which pretty much sums up most of the other concerns
you've dismissed out of hand.

> I urge you to contrast and compare that with other countries/communities who also have derived from CC data or have imports that need relicensing and so on. Most of them have worked it out. What we're scratching our heads about is how -au is different. I think we've been thinking pretty hard and not come up with anything other than trolls taking over the sentiment of the community.

You mean most of them have ended up agreeing to the changes regardless
if they were able to or not, there is several imports that people went
ahead with in good faith, such as QldProtectedAreas, that were given
the impression that it was ok, however without major changes to the
CTs this data isn't allowed to be imported unless you are planning to
stay under a CC-by or CC-by-SA license.

> We could work on this imported data issue. Well, we have. We've asked multiple times for outlines of where the data is, who imported it and so on. To the best of my knowledge nobody has raised this substantially with the LWG, please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't attend every single meeting.
>
> We could work on making the LWG meetings more accessible to people in the -au timezone. Well, we have. Several times we've shifted the meeting hours (for example to speak with nearmap) and tried other ways to engage.

or you could do better at dealing with them, rather than saying you
will do something and hope people go away so you can quietly drop them
later.

> We could spend time meeting in person. Well, we've tried a bit there though of course it's expensive and hard. The threat of violence hasn't made me want to come to -au despite having the means to do so, and we've made attempts to get people to come to SOTM.

I must have missed the threats to you or anyone else involved, because
the only previous mention was you expression concern over your safety,
what changed in the last 3 days?

> We could work on making the mailing lists a better place to be. Well, we have. In fact we've approached people about moderating this list but one of them won't do it because - get this - the person fears for his job. They're worried that if they moderate this list the trolls will start phoning their employer. That's quite something. Clearly, things are very unhealthy. If you'd like to help moderate, please get in touch. We don't think an outsider should do it, or anyone who operates under a pseudonym or has been moderated off another list.

Perhaps you should have better rules for everyone, because I have been
threated to be dobbed into my employer to the point that I actually
brought him up to speed on all the nonsense going on, and he turned
round and asked me if I thought it was worth airing to newspapers but
I felt it was a matter to be dealt with internally. Frankly Steve you
really need to try harder on implying pen names mean something
nefarious is going on other than openly outing your BS.

> Of course we're not perfect. But I think we can say we're trying, even with people who traditionally we no longer have time for or who have been moderated off the main lists. You can jump in and say what we should have done in 2009 or something, and I'm sure we made mistakes. But without being personal, and understanding that everyone is a volunteer, what would you do in my position that's reasonable to change things? I'm sure if it was rational we'd attempt it.

You keep making the same mistakes, and of course nothing is being
resolved because you stick your head in the sand and try and pretend
it will just magically take care of itself, all you are achieving
lately is showing how arrogant you can be and how poorly you can spin
things.