[talk-au] Legal access to Public land ...

[Warin]

On 7/7/2016 12:35 PM, forster at ozonline.com.au wrote:
> Hi
>
> Even with Warin's proposed edit to the wiki guidelines, I think it is 
> still unclear whether its better to use the value 'private' or 'no' 
> for the 'access' key. (And the various transport mode keys).
>
> For example, for tracks in national parks and closed water catchments 
> which have more restrictive conditions for the general public than 
> they do for the managing bodies, such as:'Management vehicles and 
> walkers only'.
>
> The guidelines http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access#Values
> 'no'     No access for the general public
> seems to me to mean much the same as
> 'private' Only with permission of the owner on an individual basis
>
> Maybe some specific examples in the wiki might help clarify this?

The Australian guide should be Australian specific .. not used to give 
what is a detailed general explanation of a key/value.

access tags - as I see it

yes - full legal, access at any time. I would expect general traffic here.
permissive - open access at present. Maybe withdrawn by the owner. I 
would expect general traffic.
discouraged - access is discouraged but available. I would expect 
reduced traffic.
private - access with the permission of the owner. I would expect little 
traffic, only official vehicles or property owners.
no - no access to the general public. I would expect very little to no 
traffic.

activity types of access
delivery - only vehicles making delivery.
destination - only vehicles stopping in the locality
customer - only vehicles shopping here
designated  - only vehicles meeting the type of vehicle stated
agricultural - only agricultural vehicles (tractors, combine harvesters etc)
forestry - only forestry vehicles (e.g. timber jinkers)
dismount - for cyclists

With access=no I would not expect to be able to apply for access, for 
access=private I would expect to be able to apply for access (but not 
necessarily get it).

For "Management vehicles and walkers only" I would use
access=no
foot=yes

As that means - walkers can use it - no restriction.
General public (other than walkers (foot)) have no access. This excludes 
cyclist, horse riders etc etc. If there were lots of management vehicles 
using it I might add motor_vehicle=private.

There are lots of different access restrictions existing in Australia .. 
but they also exist around the world .. so nothing specific to Australia?



>
> Tony
>
>> On 7/5/2016 9:13 AM, Mark Pulley wrote:
>>> On 2 Jul 2016, at 3:30 pm, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/2/2016 9:26 AM, Frank wrote:
>>>>> OpenStreetMap Wiki page Australian Tagging Guidelines has been
>>>>> changed on 1 July 2016 by Swanilli to say that the public has a  
>>>>> legal right to access public land ...
>>>>>
>>>>> No!
>>>>>
>>>>> The NSW NPSW do legally exclude the public from certain areas and 
>>>>>  at least vehicles from certain tracks.
>>>>>
>>>>> The NSW, WA, SA and Victorian State Forests legally exclude the  
>>>>> public too .. think about the car rallies held from time to time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even 'public roads' get closed to the public from time to time... 
>>>>>  how else would the Bathurst Road Race be held?????
>>>>>
>>>>> I have remove the offending statement from the wiki. I did  
>>>>> attempt to contact the user .. but the wiki page has no send a  
>>>>> message' type thiny ...  hence this message.
>>>> Found the contact ... made comments on 2 changesets.
>>>> Confusion may have arisen over plain English understanding of
>>>> access=no
>>>>
>>>> But the tags are
>>>> access=no
>>>> foot=yes
>>>>
>>>> meaning you can access by foot but nothing else... in the OSM data 
>>>> base.
>>>
>>> I have been using
>>>
>>> motor_vehicle=no (or motorcar=no / motorcycle=no)
>>> foot=yes (or foot=designated)
>>>
>>> and depending on other tags
>>>
>>> bicycle=no (or bicycle=designated if specifically signposted)
>>>
>>> Mark P.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks Mark. That is a good method...
>>
>> I'd use motor_vehicle as that covers trucks, tractors etc.
>>
>> On review I think something for the Oz wiki tagging guide lines page
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Access_roads_on_public_land 
>> along the  lines
>> of
>>
>> "Where an access road crosses public land it should not be assumed to
>> have or not have access restrictions. Where a sign says "Authorised
>> vehicles Only" or you know that access is restricted the tag
>> motor_vehicle=private could be used to indicate the access restriction.
>> Access restrictions for others (walkers, cyclists etc.) should be found
>> on the access wiki page (link to
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access).
>> To help other mappers recognise the validity of the access restriction
>> a sourec tag can be used e.g. source:access_motor_vehicle=sign on
>> eastern end of road"
>>
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