[talk-au] Blank map in remote country areas

[Ben Kelley]

Hi.

So there are 2 issues (it seems): At what zoom does the road show, and 
at what zoom does the name show?

Take for example https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/-31.7211/150.4649

At this zoom no roads have names.

Zoom in to 12, and you see highway=unclassified roads that weren't 
visible at 11.

You don't start to see the names of any roads at all until zoom 13. At 
zoom 15 you see the names of all roads.

I think showing more detail a little bit sooner when there is less 
detail to show is going to be a difficult problem for a renderer to 
solve in a way that makes more sense than the current popular renderers.

I think going from some roads to all roads over 2 zooms (13->15) is not 
a bad compromise.


  - Ben.

On 22/1/19 13:50, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> A while back, there was mention on the list of OSM only showing vast 
> amounts of blank whiteness when looking at remote country areas; & 
> then there was further mention regarding Aussie country roads not 
> showing up well enough in OSM.
>
> A lady I speak to on another forum, lives in a small town in FNQ, & 
> had complained on the forum about various on-line maps not showing any 
> details.
>
> After I asked her for some details, so we could possibly examine 
> things, she has said: (for privacy, I have deleted the name of her 
> actual town):
>
> I live in an isolated remote town called xxxxxxx, although not as 
> isolated as some. Two hours/150km west of Mareeba and three 
> hours/210km west of Cairns.
> So its: Cairns, Mareeba, Dimbulah, Petford, Almaden, Chillagoe. 
> Petford & Almaden are way smaller than xxxxx.
>
> I rarely use Google Maps, but use Google Earth a lot. Today is 
> probably the first time I've looked at GM for this specific area.
>
> I've now realised OpenStreetMaps is actually no worse than Google 
> Maps, and in some things it's actually better.
>
> Zooming into xxxxxx, OpenStreetMaps is accurate and up-to-date, with 
> roads and tracks that are actually in use.
>
> Google Maps shows streets that no longer exist. They may be/have 
> been/are gazetted roads, but now don't even look like they ever 
> existed even in track form (although they did way way back in the 
> mining days, I think).
>
> The problem when I originally commented was that if I looked at the 
> area between Dimbulah (or Petford) and Chillagoe, there was nothing to 
> tell me the name of the road. But looking at Google Maps today, 
> there's nothing there either. Although when I zoom in a name comes up 
> more quickly than it does on OpenStreetMaps.
>
> If I'm looking at a hard copy paper map from RACQ or Sunmap or 
> whoever, I can see at a glance where I am and what the names of 
> everything are.
>
> It's just that our distances are vast, and at the amount zoomed out 
> that I want some detail, the populated areas have no detail either. So 
> in a way I can't expect it.
>
> However, outback roads are usually the *only* roads there are and it 
> would be nice to have labelling when that much zoomed out. (Is this 
> making sense to you?)
>
> I have a reasonable knowledge of east coast highways and roads between 
> them (mainly Qld and NSW) and reference to a map is just double 
> checking or looking for shortcuts or detours. I'm a bit of a map 
> freak. Have a stack of hard copy maps for the east coast, and spend 
> time on Google Earth and Google Maps just checking out old and new 
> roads, and looking up places I read about in the news. Unfortunately 
> I'm not that good with terrain on topo maps, but never needed to use 
> them enough. And I've recently learned that I need to double check 
> altitudes on GE before I make assumptions about geography. Not always 
> what it looks like.
>
> Here is a starting point for my area. (Bearing in mind I'm on a Sony 
> Vaio with a 13 inch screen (13.3" ??).)
>
> Google Maps
> Seems to have more 'stops' in its zoom ability.
> https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-17.3121687,144.755859,11.75z
> Looking at it today
>
> OpenStreetMap
> Unfamiliar map. If I zoom in more than this I have absolutely nothing...
> Not enough 'stops' in the zoom. All or nothing.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/-17.2500/144.7895
>
> Also, at first glance it looks like the railway line is the main road. 
> In fact you can't see there's a road there until I zoom right in. You 
> can see the rest of Burke Development Road to Chillagoe, you can see 
> the road from Petford to Irvinebank, but you can't see the Almaden 
> Gingerella Road running generally to the west of the rail line, and on 
> down to Mount Garnet or Mount Surprise. You wouldn't know it was 
> there. (Local name is the Ootan Road.)
>
> Google Maps is not much better to look at, but you can see the road, 
> and the road is 'highlighted' (slightly)more than the rail line.
>
> This railway line carries The Savannahlander which leaves Cairns for 
> Forsayth on Wednesday and returns on Saturday except in the Wet 
> Season. Nothing else travels on it, except the occasional QR Toyota 
> with rail wheels.
>
> So, to me, a lot of this would seem to tie in with country roads being 
> mapped as =unclassified (& I noticed from clearing some of the Telenav 
> errors, that it doesn't seem to like highway=unclassified, having 
> street names?), with even the "main" road only being =secondary (if 
> that!).
>
> Her other comment re population areas not being visible is also tied 
> back in to the frequent discussions we've had about size of places, 
> Europe v Oz - these "towns" are (correctly) mapped as place=villages 
> as they only have 200-300 people living in them, but they're the 
> social, commercial & financial centre for a couple of thousand sq km :-(
>
> Nice to hear that we actually compare quite well with the mega-$ enemy 
> :-), but it would be nice to be able to do better! :-)
>
> Any thoughts of any way of fixing this sort of "problem", apart from 
> lieing to the map? :-)
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>

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