[talk-au] Rock Overhangs

[David Wales]

I tend to agree with Warin here.
Unless some human has carved the cave out, I don't think it should count
as an amenity!

On 1/4/19 9:07 am, Warin wrote:
> I object. 
> amenity=shelter I see as a man made object, some with better shelter
> than others.
> I think these should remain in the 'natural key space, possibly
> natural=overhang?
> 
> But then what do I know???
> 
> amenity=shelter has
> shelter_type
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shelter_type>=rock_shelter - A
> rock shelter is a shallow cave-like opening at the base of a bluff or cliff
> 
> and that looks to fit perfectly!
> 
> I'd not tag them as camp sites, let people evaluate them and the
> surrounds themselves for camping rather than suggest a place.
> 
> 
> On 01/04/19 08:39, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>
>> > when (how deep) does a rock overhang / shelter become an actual cave? :-)
>>
>> Some judgement is needed, but the ones I've seen are pretty clear cut
>> as being one or the other.
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dshelter just says
>> "A shelter <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelter_%28building%29> is
>> small place to protect against bad weather conditions." which is
>> mostly what these overhangs are used for, so I think it's the
>> appropriate tag. If that shelter is frequently used as a camp site
>> (now, not just historically) then can be tagged tourism=camp_site with
>> a few extra tags
>> from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism=camp_site to help
>> distinguish this small camp site from the larger ones.
>>
>>
>> Is "not meant for sleeping, no cooking or heating equipement inside"
>> supposed to be a criteria for a shelter?
>>
>> I would say no. We should tag the rock overhang for what it is, and
>> use tourism=camp_site to say if it's commonly used for sleeping too.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 08:07, Graeme Fitzpatrick <graemefitz1 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:graemefitz1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 at 18:14, Andrew Harvey
>>     <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com <mailto:andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Rock overhangs (rock shelters) have been quite extensively
>>         mistagged in Australia as natural=cave_entrance.
>>
>>         Are there any objections to re-tagging these overhangs tagged
>>         as natural=cave_entrance to amenity=shelter +
>>         shelter_type=rock_shelter?
>>
>>
>>     No real objection, Andrew, but when (how deep) does a rock
>>     overhang / shelter become an actual cave? :-)
>>
>>     Also noticed in the discussion comments on  
>>
>>         https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shelter_type
>>
>>
>>     "Can you look if this could be tagged as a
>>     shelter ? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Champlitte,_%C3%A9craigne.jpg Tounoki
>>     <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User:Tounoki&action=edit&redlink=1> (talk
>>     <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tounoki&action=edit&redlink=1>)
>>     14:16, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
>>
>>         If it is open to the public, not meant for sleeping, no
>>         cooking or heating equipement inside, then yes, you could
>>         use amenity
>>         <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:amenity>=shelter
>>         <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dshelter> +shelter
>>         <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shelter>=weather_shelter 
>>         <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:shelter%3Dweather_shelter&action=edit&redlink=1>"
>>
>>     Is "not meant for sleeping, no cooking or heating equipement
>>     inside" supposed to be a criteria for a shelter?
>>
>>     Some of the overhangs I've seen are pitch black underneath from
>>     many thousands of years of cooking fires, & are acknowledged as
>>     places that Aboriginal peoples camped during bad weather - does
>>     that mean they're not shelters? (although I don't know what else
>>     they would then be?)
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     Graeme
>>
>>
>>
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> 
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