[talk-au] Rock Overhangs

Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Sun Mar 31 22:07:31 UTC 2019


I object.
amenity=shelter I see as a man made object, some with better shelter 
than others.
I think these should remain in the 'natural key space, possibly 
natural=overhang?

But then what do I know???

amenity=shelter has
shelter_type 
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shelter_type>=rock_shelter - A 
rock shelter is a shallow cave-like opening at the base of a bluff or cliff

and that looks to fit perfectly!

I'd not tag them as camp sites, let people evaluate them and the 
surrounds themselves for camping rather than suggest a place.


On 01/04/19 08:39, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>
> > when (how deep) does a rock overhang / shelter become an actual cave? :-)
>
> Some judgement is needed, but the ones I've seen are pretty clear cut 
> as being one or the other.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dshelter just says "A 
> shelter <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelter_%28building%29> is small 
> place to protect against bad weather conditions." which is mostly what 
> these overhangs are used for, so I think it's the appropriate tag. If 
> that shelter is frequently used as a camp site (now, not just 
> historically) then can be tagged tourism=camp_site with a few extra 
> tags from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism=camp_site to 
> help distinguish this small camp site from the larger ones.
>
>
> Is "not meant for sleeping, no cooking or heating equipement inside" 
> supposed to be a criteria for a shelter?
>
> I would say no. We should tag the rock overhang for what it is, and 
> use tourism=camp_site to say if it's commonly used for sleeping too.
>
>
> On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 08:07, Graeme Fitzpatrick <graemefitz1 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:graemefitz1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>     On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 at 18:14, Andrew Harvey
>     <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com <mailto:andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Rock overhangs (rock shelters) have been quite extensively
>         mistagged in Australia as natural=cave_entrance.
>
>         Are there any objections to re-tagging these overhangs tagged
>         as natural=cave_entrance to amenity=shelter +
>         shelter_type=rock_shelter?
>
>
>     No real objection, Andrew, but when (how deep) does a rock
>     overhang / shelter become an actual cave? :-)
>
>     Also noticed in the discussion comments on
>
>         https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shelter_type
>
>
>     "Can you look if this could be tagged as a
>     shelter ?http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Champlitte,_%C3%A9craigne.jpgTounoki
>     <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User:Tounoki&action=edit&redlink=1>(talk
>     <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tounoki&action=edit&redlink=1>)
>     14:16, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
>
>         If it is open to the public, not meant for sleeping, no
>         cooking or heating equipement inside, then yes, you could use
>         amenity
>         <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:amenity>=shelter
>         <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dshelter> +shelter
>         <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shelter>=weather_shelter
>         <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:shelter%3Dweather_shelter&action=edit&redlink=1>"
>
>     Is "not meant for sleeping, no cooking or heating equipement
>     inside" supposed to be a criteria for a shelter?
>
>     Some of the overhangs I've seen are pitch black underneath from
>     many thousands of years of cooking fires, & are acknowledged as
>     places that Aboriginal peoples camped during bad weather - does
>     that mean they're not shelters? (although I don't know what else
>     they would then be?)
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Graeme
>
>
>
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