[talk-au] Practicality of mapping high-speed motor-traffic routes as cycle routes

Andrew Harvey andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com
Mon Apr 13 10:01:13 UTC 2020

I think it's a fair argument to say it's not an actual route (but still
designated bicycle infrastructure since it's signposted), I can see
arguments both ways.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 19:27, Dongchen Yue <yuedongchenyy at gmail.com> wrote:

> It’s certainly true that some people rely on motorway routes (I agree that
> the solution for family-friendly routes would be a different renderer,
> until conditions change in Australia). However, regarding the bike symbol
> on the M2 on the Mapillary example, it’s designed to be a sign of caution
> instead of a route guide (
> https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/business-industry/partners-and-suppliers/lgr/cycling-aspects-of-austroads-guides.pdf
> ).
> Am 13.04.2020 um 7:21 PM schrieb Andrew Harvey <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>:
> Example of a dedicated bicycle crossing on a motorway entry ramp on the M2
> in Sydney https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/3HCnt9rSnC2Z9OLn0GSslA and on
> the M7 in Sydney https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/JGrFtWbs5DYbMywYpVetoA.
> The M7 Shared Path is is a completely different thing, it's a shared path
> and off road, but as you can see above on the M7 motorway itself there is
> clearly dedicated bicycle signage and infrastructure.
> Who says it's not recommended to cycle on the motorway? I've never seen a
> sign to say this. Whether it's common or not is irrelevant we mostly map
> the infrastructure on the ground not the traffic level of the road.
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 19:11, Dongchen Yue <yuedongchenyy at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> The most noticeable example in Sydney would be the M7 Shared Path (
>> https://www.westlinkm7.com.au/about/shared-path), which is a ~40km
>> uninterrupted bi-directional path alongside the M7 Motorway with normally
>> (though obviously not currently) very high usage for recreational cycling.
>> However, although cycling on the motorway shoulders is neither recommended
>> nor common, it’s been mapped on OSM as the cycle route „M7s" (
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-33.83065/150.85767&layers=C)
>> along with the „M7 Cycleway“ route.
>> Am 13.04.2020 um 6:52 PM schrieb Ewen Hill <ewen.hill at gmail.com>:
>> Hi Dongchen,
>>    Can you provide a couple of examples please so we can review and
>> discuss them. There may be good reasons (the red carpet Gardiners Creek
>> cycle path in Melbourne hangs under the freeway might appear incorrect but
>> is not).
>>  Ewen
>> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 18:20, Dongchen Yue <yuedongchenyy at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I’ve noticed many motorway shoulders in Australia (especially in Sydney)
>>> being mapped as cycle routes on OSM. Although this seems to be a common
>>> approach for motorways/other high-speed roads in Australia of which cycling
>>> is allowed on, I can hardly imagine it to be of any practical use (i.e.
>>> providing convenient and safe connections for people cycling).
>>> Foremostly, this mapping approach defies the general purpose of cycle
>>> routes (both from an engineering perspective and the official OSM Wiki),
>>> that is, guiding people onto safe & convenient ways. Although cycling on
>>> most motorway shoulders in Australia is technically permitted and commonly
>>> done by the very few “strong and fearless” people (only ~1%, as indicated
>>> in past transport research), it’s both subjectively and statically quite
>>> unsafe, which gives no use to most people when rendered on tiles such as
>>> OpenCycleMap.
>>> Also, these mapped motorway/high-speed road routes aren’t officially
>>> endorsed routes whatsoever, and are always referred to as separate pieces
>>> of infrastructure (e.g. “… cycleway”) by cycle-lobbying groups.
>>> Afterall, these “routes” probably shouldn’t be mapped at all, since they
>>> aren’t much use to most people; tagging them with ‘cycling’: ‘designated’
>>> and ‘cycleway’: ‘shoulder’ would be sufficient enough. What do you think of
>>> this solution?
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> Dongchen Yue
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-au mailing list
>>> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>> --
>> Warm Regards
>> Ewen Hill
>> Internet Development Australia
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