[talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) v-nebrac at microsoft.com
Thu Jul 1 21:20:54 UTC 2021


I have added Cleary's answer at the end since I want to make a reply to both messages.

First of all, thank you both for your messages!

I would like to quote and refer to this part:

From my experience "on the ground", any road in that database which is unnamed is almost certainly not intended for public access.  Your team could refer to this data source and ensure that unnamed roads are shown as access=private.



Before starting any mapping activity, we have downloaded the same file from the SA gov site that you were referring to. Then, we have made a diff against OSM data. For easy manipulation, we have uploaded it to our internal GeoServer with a custom SDL style. Our style automatically removes any road which represents a track in the dataset. Every unnamed road is displayed in red, but named roads are shown in white. It looks like this: https://prnt.sc/17uaz16



We have initially thought about your proposed mapping method, but it is not as simple as you might think. If you look at the following screenshots:
https://prnt.sc/17ucsdg
https://prnt.sc/17udls8

The second example is easy to fix – all you need is to extend the road name along the driveway/street – and that's it. However, there's no chance to know where the road's name starts and where it ends for the first example.

If we were doing it in the proposed way (adding access=private to (more or less) every unnamed segment), it would produce at least two severe issues to routing and data consistency. For example, you would have hundreds and hundreds of unconnected graphs since these roads would technically float. Also, all of these roads would be unreachable since these are public (searchable) roads 'stuck between' private roads.

Please note that our guideline says to check Mapillary and Karta View (where possible) if roads are private on these unnamed roads. Editors were not able to find any No trespassing /Private property signage. Editors have paid extra attention not to map agricultural roads, which would provide connectivity between arterial roads. We didn't want to make potential issues to the routing.

Another proposal placed by Mateusz seems to be okay. However, it will make a massive noise to data, for sure. We will definitely fix these ~350 roads, which might influence routing in some edge cases. We recognized that some of these roads might be classified even as tracks. The government dataset identifies these segments as regular roads, but it is clear that some of these are tracks.

The problem regarding private roads still stays an open question as it was for months now. We had the same online and offline discussion before, and there were no conclusions or consensus on fighting this problem. My team will not add any new roads now, but editors will go back and fix these ~350 roads. We are very thankful for provided feedback, and we will try not to produce such issues in the future since we are trying to follow all community rules and be completely open and transparent.

Thanks,
Nemanja

From: Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-au <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 11:21 AM
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?




Jun 28, 2021, 13:18 by talk-au at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-au at openstreetmap.org>:
We have to fix these 349 roads that provide connectivity and do not have any barrier tag. We can adjust their classification in the form of unclassified|residential > service + service=driveway (if/where applicable), but we cannot add any access=private|destination tags since we do not have ground truth.
If it is highly likely/almost certain that roads are inaccessible then maybe

access=private + fixme="verify is access really private, road mapped from aerial imagery"

or

access=unknown

would be a good idea? Especially in cases where misleading marking road as accessible
can cause direct risk to life, and as I understand this is a situation in remote Australia?

When I map amenity=parking from aerial images I ususaly add access=unknown where
private access is quite likely?

(disclaimer: I never visited Australia)
(disclaimer: access=unknown for roads is - as far as I know - not a standard tagging)


-----Original Message-----
From: Cleary osm at 97k.com<mailto:osm at 97k.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 2:12 AM
To: OpenStreetMap talk-au at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?



Nemanjo



I have a strong contrary view.  I have mapped some isolated parts of South Australia, although not recently. Routing vehicles onto private roads creates significant issues for farmers, including threats to biosecurity. It can also endanger naive motorists to send them onto (sometimes impassable) tracks well out of phone range in any emergency. Adding such roads discredits OSM as a usable data source for many users.



Further, the Government of South Australia has been most generous in making a lot of data available to OSM, long before other Australian jurisdictions. Available data includes Roads (https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.data.sa.gov.au%2Fdataset%2Froads&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7Cb90613c106cb433c9b0208d93a9339fd%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637605226327455895%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=QX2FnOP975CDBfwbElUqKwcqpg3ttgA%2F0RFi6BOoKvk%3D&reserved=0)  which shows a lot of information including the class of roads and names (where applicable). The data also shows extensive tracks that could be used by private owners or emergency services etc but are not public roads.  Public roads will have a class such as LOCL (local roads) or HWY (highway) and they have names.



From my experience "on the ground", any road in that database which is unnamed is almost certainly not intended for public access.  Your team could refer to this data source and ensure that unnamed roads are shown as access=private.



Please keep OSM showing usable and helpful data rather than discredit it with data that can alienate farmers, endanger their stock and crops, and also endanger road users.



Michael Cleary

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