[talk-au] Fwd: : Re: "Removing closed or illegal trails."

[osm.talk-au at thorsten.engler.id.au]

If there are issues with how the, correctly tagged, map is presented by data
consumers, we should be working on getting these data consumers in line, not
mangle the underlying data. 

-----Original Message-----
From: forster at ozonline.com.au <forster at ozonline.com.au> 
Sent: Saturday, 30 October 2021 19:13
To: stevea <steveaOSM at softworkers.com>
Cc: OpenStreetMap <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Fwd: : Re: "Removing closed or illegal trails."

>> Displaying a closed trail on a map (like OSM) does NOT cause people  
>>  to navigate that trail.  Such behavior is completely up to the   
>> individual who "concludes" from reading said map "hey, I'm going to  
>> hike that closed trail anyway."  (Bzzzt; fail, human logic).
>>
>> OSM is not responsible for human foolishness, scofflaws or illegal   
>> (stupid, dangerous...) behavior.  You simply can't say "the map   
>> made me do it."
>>
>> On the other hand, I do hear loud and clear the "natural preserve"   
>> areas which ARE open to human recreation, DO have "closed trails"   
>> (often with fragile and easily-human-damaged natural resources) and  
>> people, stupidly and ignorantly I might say by way of being
>> candid,  decide to hike (or bike, or motorbike...) there anyway.   
>> This is  not the fault of a map, any map, including OSM.
>>
>> OSM does its best to map "what is."  Period.  It doesn't "make   
>> people" engage in activities people shouldn't engage in.  Anybody   
>> who says so hasn't got it right, but MIGHT be worth listening to at  
>> how the map can be improved.  This includes better instructions to  
>> end-users ("downstream apps...") when warranted.

Steve, this is a restatement of the "guns don't kill people people do"  
argument.
Guns and maps are not morally responsible for what people do, they are
inanimate objects. They can never be guilty.

But the issue is not whether the guns and maps are morally responsible, the
issue is what kind of world we want to live in. If we can't control what
some people will do with guns and maps and we can't, we have the choice of
making guns less available and maps not render tracks into vulnerable
ecosystems.

Its not a moral decision, its a utilitarian decision. I am very happy to
live where guns are strictly controlled. I would rather maps be more nuanced
on the implementation of the "if it exists map it" rule which does us very
well 99.999% of the time.

Tony



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