[talk-au] : Re: "Removing closed or illegal trails."

[stevea]

I'm not sure I agree with you about "restatement," nor whether these are analogous, nor whether guns and maps overlap like this.

People use tools (and technology, a broad "modern tool") to make wise (if they are wise) or foolish (if they are foolish) decisions.

Recently in the USA, managers of a very sensitive natural reserve complained (to OSM) that OSM's trail mapping (and subsequent rendering withOUT access=private or access=no tags) "gave rise" to hikers on closed and dangerous trails.  Trails where simply a boot trample can destroy the sensitive crystallizing proto-soil and where a treacherously steep (yep, up OR down!) and highly technical climb / descent is required, sometimes forcing rescue of what are essentially foolish hikers.  (Hikers who can't read a map properly, read a map that wasn't rendered properly, both, or more).  OSM can improve, but it can't be responsible for foolishness.

I'm not talking about morals, nor am I characterizing decisions of foolish hikers/bikers/off-road-motorcyclists... as moral (though, it seems you are) — maybe, in fact, they are.  I agree we want OSM to be utilitarian AND we want people to pay attention to [gun laws, gun safety locks, keeping guns away from children, map renderers, map renderings that display trails that are CLOSED to YOU, the hefty invoice for helicopter rescue you might find yourself receiving to save your life from your own stupidity...] so that tragic accidents don't happen.  Accidents can be prevented, certainly reduced, though most would agree, not to perfection (zero).  Humans engaging in foolish behavior resulting in accidents, well, we put the safeties in place, but you didn't pay attention.  And now you are upset we didn't coddle you?  Let's act like adults rather than expecting some nanny to take care of us.  Many (real-time, GPS-based) maps have warnings at boot-up time which not-always-effectively state "use your common sense and don't be a dork slavishly following the instructions of what is a software device, because software devices, including human-created databases, are notoriously error-prone."  There are the Darwin Awards.

How much [bad navigation where the driver plunged her car into the lake, senseless gun violence...] should we "pretend away" by not attributing human stupidity where it is due?  Devices are stupid, too, and safety, QA, post-mortem analysis (like in software debugging) and much else are good due diligence, but there is no substitute for good old responsibility.  Maps and guns are powerful.  Don't be stupid using them.  This is true of every single technology.  Though, some people might wish this away by locking up tech to be used only by the anointed.  OSM's first name is Open, not "provide maps (and guns) only to those who meet special strict controls."  Instruct and train users in the use of maps (and guns).  Don't make maps (and guns) more stupid or put them in the hands of "special people."  I want to live in a world where maps are "nuanced" as well, unless by that you mean "censored."  I'm not OK with censorship.  If you read (or even write) "samizdat" or "how to make a bomb" or "this is how to get to the totally-closed-off-to-most-humans-the-sacred-native-peoples-ceremonial-site-in-the-desert-you-must-not-visit" and then do something stupid with that knowledge, is it because you read a book or map?  No, it isn't.

Hm, maybe there is overlap.  And that means there is something to be said for people taking responsibility for using technology (like maps), not expecting it to be "closed shut."

Let's fix how people (and software, like routers) read our map, if there is something broken or deficient about that.  Let's not censor our map.

SteveA