[talk-au] 'Named' EV chargers

Sun Dec 25 11:07:57 UTC 2022

Hi Andrew,
I agree with this.

On 16 December 2022 1:33:21 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com> wrote:
>I think it's reasonable for it to have a name like "Tesla Supercharger
>Hollydene, NSW". If Tesla refers to it as such, and you might ask someone
>to meet you at the Tesla Supercharger Hollydene, then that's it's name.
>Just like we would map name="Woolworths Dee Why", since that's what the
>receipt would label it as, and what you might tell someone when
>referring to the store. It doesn't stop you also tagging brand= and branch=.
>
>On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 at 00:02, Sebastian S. <mapping at consebt.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi Phil,
>>
>> I think you are getting to the real question...
>>
>> So I did some checking and the charging invoice from Tesla does not give
>> any REF or Name. It simply states the address.
>> The map in the car and on the phone gives ' Tesla Supercharger Hollydene,
>> NSW' in bold as the identification token (trying to avoid using ame here).
>>
>> For me as an user I want to find this charger when I search for it. I want
>> to see the full token to easily distinguish between several chargers. I
>> also would be happy to see the token on a rendered map.
>>
>> Weather the text is in the REF or NAME tag I don't care.
>>
>> I do think the chargers should also have tags for address details, plug ,
>> access and cost, network, operator and brand details. We are allowed to
>> dream right?
>>
>> So back to the real question. Is the argument that
>> ' Tesla Supercharger Hollydene, NSW' is not a name and should not be used
>> as a single text string? Or should the text string simply not be a NAME tag
>> and instead a REF tag?
>>
>> Or lastly is the expectation that data consumers 'construct' the
>> information from other tags? For the last point I think it is a great idea
>> but unrealistic see my ' Tesla Supercharger Central Coast NSW' example
>> where the city=Tuggerah.
>>
>> I'm happy to use REF if this is the majority preference.
>>
>> Cheers Seb
>>
>> On 15 December 2022 11:07:47 pm AEDT, Phil Wyatt <phil at wyatt-family.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Sebastian,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I suppose for me it’s a question of should OSM hold a name which can be
>>> made from other attributes and does it fit with the name and charging wikis?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcharging_station
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do tesla chargers/charge areas also have reference numbers like other
>>> networks? This usually goes in the ref key.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect many of these are ‘named’ simply so they get a label in the
>>> carto map without people realising that the operator and ref are used for
>>> labelling charging stations in that map instance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Other apps may well use other OSM attributes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Some interesting ‘name’ insights in this post as well
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SimonPoole/diary/397565
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers – Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Sebastian S. <mapping at consebt.de>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 15 December 2022 10:34 PM
>>> *To:* talk-au at openstreetmap.org; Phil Wyatt <phil at wyatt-family.com>;
>>> 'Warin' <61sundowner at gmail.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] 'Named' EV chargers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> As an EV driver I think that some charge stations have names.
>>>
>>> I do agree that 'Tesla Supercharger ' is not a name with much value.
>>> Tesla has names in their app for these charging stations, e.g. 'Tesla
>>> Supercharger Hollydene, NSW' or 'Tesla Supercharger Central Coast, NSW'.
>>> For the latter the name is not the same as the address which is one of my
>>> key reasons to have the name tag, full length.
>>>
>>> Aside from the Tesla supercharger there will be other large high current
>>> or DC charging stations that in my view warrant a name. Mainly because the
>>> are or will be key stopover points that people will navigate to.
>>>
>>> But I'm also of the opinion that the name of the Woolworths in Dee Why is
>>> ' Woolworths Dee Why '
>>>
>>> Seb
>>>
>>> On 15 December 2022 8:23:19 pm AEDT, Phil Wyatt <phil at wyatt-family.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Warin,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Its pretty obvious that most are not real names but actually descriptions
>>> or operators/networks and locations
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1p4N
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers - Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 15 December 2022 8:00 PM
>>> *To:* talk-au at openstreetmap.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] 'Named' EV chargers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15/12/22 17:11, Ben Kelley wrote:
>>>
>>> My thoughts:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wouldn't remove the names. It's a big call to say that this thing
>>> definitely does not have a name, when someone else says it does, especially
>>> if 50% have a name.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Tesla supercharger" is not an individual name, probably a brand. And
>>> there would be many that have that "name" in the world. It would be like
>>> tagging some petrol stations with 'name=Shell'.
>>>
>>> The easiest thing to do is change the key 'name' to 'description', that
>>> way OSM looses no information.
>>>
>>> Then add tags for brand/operator/ref/*.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  - Ben.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 14:24, Phil Wyatt <phil at wyatt-family.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thoughts on 'named' EV chargers? Around 50% of chargers in Oz have some
>>> 'name'.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most look to be adding the either the location or name of the operator
>>> etc (ie Freds Shop, XYZ carpark, Tesla supercharger etc), I suspect so it
>>> gets rendered on the map.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are folks happy if I remove the names. I will ensure that no details are
>>> lost by making sure any operator or network details gets added to the
>>> correct tags.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (I will also post to Oceania Forum and Discord)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Overpass query](https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1p4u)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers - Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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