[talk-au] 'Named' EV chargers

Mon Dec 26 01:26:54 UTC 2022

Hey Andrew,

I'm not sure I agree with you that naming a supercharger is equivalent 
to the naming of a supermarket branch.

To me, the supercharger seems more akin to a petrol pump, and while you 
might map individual pumps only the service station would be named.

Phil raises a good point with regards to locations with more than one 
charger: it's not really the pump itself that has a name, but the 
facility that is offering the charging services. The wiki seems to 
follow this line of thinking (but of course, it's not perfect) 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcharging_station. For 
consideration, I'd also consider the equivalence to how device charging 
stations or vending machines are mapped. 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Ddevice_charging_station 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dvending_machine

Dian

On 2022-12-16 13:33, Andrew Harvey wrote:

> I think it's reasonable for it to have a name like "Tesla Supercharger 
> Hollydene, NSW". If Tesla refers to it as such, and you might ask 
> someone to meet you at the Tesla Supercharger Hollydene, then that's 
> it's name. Just like we would map name="Woolworths Dee Why", since 
> that's what the receipt would label it as, and what you might tell 
> someone when referring to the store. It doesn't stop you also tagging 
> brand= and branch=.
> 
> On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 at 00:02, Sebastian S. <mapping at consebt.de> wrote:
> 
> Hi Phil,
> 
> I think you are getting to the real question...
> 
> So I did some checking and the charging invoice from Tesla does not 
> give any REF or Name. It simply states the address.
> The map in the car and on the phone gives ' Tesla Supercharger 
> Hollydene, NSW' in bold as the identification token (trying to avoid 
> using ame here).
> 
> For me as an user I want to find this charger when I search for it. I 
> want to see the full token to easily distinguish between several 
> chargers. I also would be happy to see the token on a rendered map.
> 
> Weather the text is in the REF or NAME tag I don't care.
> 
> I do think the chargers should also have tags for address details, plug 
> , access and cost, network, operator and brand details. We are allowed 
> to dream right?
> 
> So back to the real question. Is the argument that
> ' Tesla Supercharger Hollydene, NSW' is not a name and should not be 
> used as a single text string? Or should the text string simply not be a 
> NAME tag and instead a REF tag?
> 
> Or lastly is the expectation that data consumers 'construct' the 
> information from other tags? For the last point I think it is a great 
> idea but unrealistic see my ' Tesla Supercharger Central Coast NSW' 
> example where the city=Tuggerah.
> 
> I'm happy to use REF if this is the majority preference.
> 
> Cheers Seb
> 
> On 15 December 2022 11:07:47 pm AEDT, Phil Wyatt 
> <phil at wyatt-family.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Sebastian,
> 
> I suppose for me it's a question of should OSM hold a name which can be 
> made from other attributes and does it fit with the name and charging 
> wikis?
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcharging_station
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name
> 
> Do tesla chargers/charge areas also have reference numbers like other 
> networks? This usually goes in the ref key.
> 
> I suspect many of these are 'named' simply so they get a label in the 
> carto map without people realising that the operator and ref are used 
> for labelling charging stations in that map instance.
> 
> Other apps may well use other OSM attributes.
> 
> Some interesting 'name' insights in this post as well
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SimonPoole/diary/397565
> 
> Cheers - Phil
> 
> From: Sebastian S. <mapping at consebt.de>
> Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2022 10:34 PM
> To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org; Phil Wyatt <phil at wyatt-family.com>; 
> 'Warin' <61sundowner at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] 'Named' EV chargers
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> As an EV driver I think that some charge stations have names.
> 
> I do agree that 'Tesla Supercharger ' is not a name with much value. 
> Tesla has names in their app for these charging stations, e.g. 'Tesla 
> Supercharger Hollydene, NSW' or 'Tesla Supercharger Central Coast, 
> NSW'. For the latter the name is not the same as the address which is 
> one of my key reasons to have the name tag, full length.
> 
> Aside from the Tesla supercharger there will be other large high 
> current or DC charging stations that in my view warrant a name. Mainly 
> because the are or will be key stopover points that people will 
> navigate to.
> 
> But I'm also of the opinion that the name of the Woolworths in Dee Why 
> is ' Woolworths Dee Why '
> 
> Seb
> 
> On 15 December 2022 8:23:19 pm AEDT, Phil Wyatt <phil at wyatt-family.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Warin,
> 
> Its pretty obvious that most are not real names but actually 
> descriptions or operators/networks and locations
> 
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1p4N
> 
> Cheers - Phil
> 
> From: Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2022 8:00 PM
> To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] 'Named' EV chargers
> 
> On 15/12/22 17:11, Ben Kelley wrote:
> 
> My thoughts:
> 
> I wouldn't remove the names. It's a big call to say that this thing 
> definitely does not have a name, when someone else says it does, 
> especially if 50% have a name.
> 
> "Tesla supercharger" is not an individual name, probably a brand. And 
> there would be many that have that "name" in the world. It would be 
> like tagging some petrol stations with 'name=Shell'.
> 
> The easiest thing to do is change the key 'name' to 'description', that 
> way OSM looses no information.
> 
> Then add tags for brand/operator/ref/*.
> 
> - Ben.
> 
> On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 14:24, Phil Wyatt <phil at wyatt-family.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> Thoughts on 'named' EV chargers? Around 50% of chargers in Oz have some 
> 'name'.
> 
> Most look to be adding the either the location or name of the operator 
> etc (ie Freds Shop, XYZ carpark, Tesla supercharger etc), I suspect so 
> it gets rendered on the map.
> 
> Are folks happy if I remove the names. I will ensure that no details 
> are lost by making sure any operator or network details gets added to 
> the correct tags.
> 
> (I will also post to Oceania Forum and Discord)
> 
> [Overpass query](https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1p4u)
> 
> Cheers - Phil
> 
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> 
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