[talk-au] Bicycle access tags in Victoria and other edits edits

[Kim Oldfield]

Responses below.

On 15/5/22 13:56, forster at ozonline.com.au wrote:
> Hi Sebastian and list
>
> Today I did a number of edits relating to whether a lack of bicycle 
> signage, on its own, is sufficient grounds to remove 
> bicycle=yes/designated or cycleway. Most of my edits though relate to 
> cases where there is signage that had not been noticed by an editor.
>
> I invite anybody with an opinion on this to discuss here (talk-au). So 
> far I have two, reproduced below:
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> This is one of two cases of questions that had been asked but not 
> answered, I don't have an opinion on this one. Changeset: 115626232, 
> Sebastian's answer below
>
> Bob42nd we shouldn?t be mapping based on a Strava heat map as it 
> doesn?t not determine that transiting in permissible. The heat map 
> indicates that people have used it but we should be mapping on the 
> ground with what form of transport is permitted.

Strava heatmap by itself is not a reason to map a path. Strava heatmap 
is useful to align a known path to an accurate location based on lots of 
Strava users' GPS traces.

Mapping a path over a grass area with surface=grass is reasonable, and 
often the best way of indicating in OSM that it is possible to navigate 
between nearby ways. When using OSM for navigation it is often unclear 
if you can travel directly between 2 close ways - there may be a fence 
or house in the way (which you can't walk through), or it may be an 
unrestricted grass area which can easily be walked across. Adding a 
grass way makes it obvious that you can travel directly between the 
points, while surface=grass and informal=yes indicates that there is not 
a high quality path.

> _________________________________________________________________________
> changeset/120382941 This one had been changed from a cycleway to a 
> footway on the basis of no signage indicating that bicycles were 
> allowed. Lots of paths have been changed to foot on the basis of no 
> signage and I have let many go uncommented because I am not familiar 
> with them.

If the path is signposted as "cyclists dismount" then bicycle=designated 
is wrong. bicycle=dismount is the most appropriate tag, though 
bicycle=no is often used interchangeably with bicycle=dismount.

While many cyclists would consider "Cyclists dismount" to be 
inappropriate, it is not OSM's role re-interpret what is appropriate, 
rather, it is to document what is legally allowed.

As cycling on footpaths is not generally allowed in Victoria, using 
highway=cycleway should only be used where there are signs allowing bikes.

IMHO adding foot= and bicycle= tags is usually a waste of effort as in 
Victoria highway=footway implies foot=yes and bicycle=no, while 
highway=cycleway implies foot=yes and bicycle=yes. Adding these tags can 
make things worse as it is unclear if children under 13 can ride on a 
path tagged with bicycle=no. Did the person who added the tag do it 
because all cyclists are banned, or were they just duplicating the 
implied cyclists limitations for footpaths while ignoring the effect the 
age of the cyclist has on what is allowed?

> I know  this one well. My understanding is that you have to wheel your 
> bike across Macrobertson Bridge but otherwise its OK to ride. I 
> signaled my intent to edit 2 weeks ago and got no reply so I made the 
> changes. Sebastian's reply below:
>
> The Mapillary link you provided included a big picture of a bike with 
> a cross through it painted on the ground indicating that bikes are not 
> permitted. Not sure how you have have come to the conclusion that 
> bikes are permitted.
>
>  The bridge way that diverts north and follows Yarra Boulevard is not 
> part of the Main Yarra Trail.
>
> Please revert the change.
> ______________________________________________________________________
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