[OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!

Sat Jun 1 16:44:15 UTC 2013

Why would I compare my data with e.g. the data from Tourisme Vlaanderen.
Today, during a walk of 8km, I found 1 node that was numbered incorrectly,
1 that was placed a few hundrerd meters away from the official position and
a path that was layed out different from their map.

So I would never use their data, but immediately take my survey data.

For house numbers it's a bit different. I (would) use the AGIV data to
verify my surveyed data in case the number looks weird. (e.g. when I made a
typo on my GPS or when I was too lazy to walk in an alley and only have the
range of numbers).

I really don't see many benefits if you have to compare survey data with
"official" data. If you import everything automatically and you gain a lot
of time because you don't need to survey. But otherwise I always prefer my
surveyed data.

On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Pieter Colpaert <pieter.colpaert at okfn.org>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Question is, if you write a tool which compares data, and people can then
> choose the correct point inside both datasets, who is then the rightful
> owner of the resulting dataset? Both organisations? Or all the people who
> entered the correct data manually?
>
> Another question, what's the legal difference between:
>  - going to each house manually and
>  - comparing/scraping datasets?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Pieter
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 5:50 PM, Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was also thinking that we could put their disclaimer along with the
>> source mention on that page.
>> Also Openstreetmap data comes with no warranties anyway.
>>
>> Nobody is going to follow the source chain and make a claim that data
>> that made its way into OSM was wrong when it came from AGIV. It will simply
>> be corrected and people will move on.
>>
>> Then we will need a way to detect difference between our data and theirs
>> and feed back a report about it.
>>
>> Jo
>>
>>
>> 2013/6/1 Johan C <osmned at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Will AGIV accept attribution on this page:
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors in order to use the
>>> data under ODbL?
>>>
>>> Cheers, Johan
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen <ben.abelshausen at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> @marc: yes it's the best way to get accurate data anyway! :-)
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure about the Flemish open data licenses, Pieter should know.
>>>>
>>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>>> ben.abelshausen at gmail.com
>>>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Marc Gemis <marc.gemis at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers
>>>>>
>>>>> m.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would
>>>>>> really help us a lot either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the
>>>>>> data?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen <ben.abelshausen at gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Again,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about
>>>>>>> the licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also
>>>>>>> explained why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add
>>>>>>> a disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I
>>>>>>> also asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans
>>>>>>> in that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 2015
>>>>>>> but that descision was still to be made...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>>>>>> ben.abelshausen at gmail.com
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen <
>>>>>>> ben.abelshausen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the
>>>>>>>> response.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>>>>>>> ben.abelshausen at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert <
>>>>>>>> pieter.colpaert at okfn.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Ben,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the
>>>>>>>>> Flemish Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is
>>>>>>>>> going to advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to
>>>>>>>>> convince AGIV to start using the right ones:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/<http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/flemish-open-data-licenses/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pieter
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bad news!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse
>>>>>>>>>> for OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is
>>>>>>>>>> reusing this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot
>>>>>>>>>> reuse this data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping
>>>>>>>>>> based on it and not copying would be ok...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in
>>>>>>>>>> beer! I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are
>>>>>>>>>> working on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this
>>>>>>>>>> data, including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by then
>>>>>>>>>> all addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally
>>>>>>>>>> being able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what
>>>>>>>>>> usage in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just
>>>>>>>>>> geocoding on the main OSM-website.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>>>>>>>>> ben.abelshausen at gmail.com <mailto:ben.abelshausen at gmail.**com<ben.abelshausen at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/xivk
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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