[OSM-talk-be] Brussels

[Gerard Vanderveken]

>  The only problem is how to name it.
> The three territories are called:
>
> Flemish Community, Communauté flamande, Vlaamse Gemeenschap, Flämische 
> Gemeinschaft
> French Community, Communauté française, Franse Gemeenschap, 
> Französische Gemeinschaft
> German-speaking Community, Communauté germanophone, Duitstalige 
> Gemeenschap, Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft
>
> They should normally not be called territories, but I'm not going to 
> start a misunderstood revolution.
> Brussels' Community? Bilingual Community?


I think it should be Bilingual Community, because
- that border level refers to the languages and Brussels is not (an 
official one)
- it's a neutral description and does not favourite one of the languages 
as else one of them should be mentioned first.
A note could explain that the community is part of both, but is mapped 
seperatly, because of the limitations of OSM.

Regards,
Gerard.

André Pirard wrote:

> On 2013-11-13 12:18, Marc Gemis wrote :
>
>> Can someone please tell me how I can properly tag this 
>> POI http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/237662466 ?
>>
>> It's a shop located in the Pierstraat in Reet. The building has an 
>> addr:street tag and is part of an associatedStreet relation. However 
>> Nominatim (and openlinkmap) places it in the Pierstraat - 
>> Matenstraat. Do a look-up for "Vero Golf" on osm.org <http://osm.org>
>
> Would anyone mind so little? ;-)
>
>> Brussels: Village Boundary Brussels, Ville de Bruxelles, 
>> Brussels-Capital, French Community, Brussels-Capital Region, 
>> 1000;1040, Belgium 
>> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/?minlon=4.33549880981445&minlat=50.7964057922363&maxlon=4.40201187133789&maxlat=50.8904113769531>
>
> Nominatim locates that village in the French Community !!!
> And nobody seems to care !!!
>
>>
>>     ...
>>     Territorialité des langues
>>     <https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communaut%C3%A9s_de_Belgique#Territorialit.C3.A9_des_langues>
>>
>> La Constitution belge a prévu, en son article 4 
>> <https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_4_de_la_Constitution_belge>, 
>> quatre régions linguistiques 
>> <https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9gions_linguistiques_de_Belgique> : 
>> la région de langue néerlandaise, la région de Bruxelles-Capitale 
>> (bilingue français-néerlandais), la région de langue française et la 
>> région de langue allemande (la plupart des communes des Cantons de 
>> l'Est 
>> <https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantons_de_l%27Est_%28Belgique%29>). 
>> Ces quatre zones délimitent les territoires où chaque langue est la 
>> langue officielle, avec en plus trente communes situées près des 
>> frontières linguistiques où des minorités historiques bénéficient de 
>> facilités linguistiques 
>> <https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilit%C3%A9s_linguistiques>.
>>
>> Les Communautés ne représentent donc pas directement l'ensemble des 
>> personnes parlant une des langues officielles, mais les habitants des 
>> différentes régions linguistiques.
>>
>
>>   Gemeenschap (België)
>>   <https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeenschap_%28Belgi%C3%AB%29>
>>
>> Een gemeenschap is een persoonsgebonden overheid in België 
>> <https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgi%C3%AB>.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Alle Belgen vallen onder een van de volgende drie taalgemeenschappen ...
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>     Brussel
>>
>> Brussel is officieel tweetalig, behorend tot zowel de Vlaamse en 
>> Franse gemeenschap...
>>
>
> The issue seems clear to me, especially in French.
> We have 3 kinds of persons according to the official language they 
> speak, but we have 4 territories one of which is bilingual in the 
> sense that their people can choose between two languages. "behorend 
> tot zowel" is ambiguous: it should made clear that it speaks of the 
> persons and not the territories.
> But that's obvious. A territory cannot be inside 2 disjoint 
> territories, and that's the problem...
> As OSM is obviously drawing territories, the communities do not fit in 
> relations, these must contain territories
>
> As nobody cares, as I am presently involved in Brussels modifications, 
> and as I know boundaries well, I can do that:
> - add a 4th territory aka community for Brussels.
> The only problem is how to name it.
> The three territories are called:
>
> Flemish Community, Communauté flamande, Vlaamse Gemeenschap, Flämische 
> Gemeinschaft
> French Community, Communauté française, Franse Gemeenschap, 
> Französische Gemeinschaft
> German-speaking Community, Communauté germanophone, Duitstalige 
> Gemeenschap, Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft
>
> They should normally not be called territories, but I'm not going to 
> start a misunderstood revolution.
> Brussels' Community? Bilingual Community?
>
>> I know this is a complex street that starts as Pierstraat in 
>> Reet/Rumst in the east ,...
>
> I know it's a complex country that starts as Pierstraat in the west, 
> ... :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Cordialement,
>
> André.
>
>
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